Project Notes [Missing] Feature

Feedback and Discussion Forum
1

I have written before about the need for Project Notes, So I can write down various notes related to the project.

This is a very important aspect of any “activity” disciplines in projects - research, jamming, ideas explored, sources of inspiration, instruments used in various tracks, their relationships, iteration variations etc.

You get the idea.

Without the support for recording such notes, I am forced to write things elsewhere and deal with the complexities of keeping things together (creating lots of other overheads).

I am sure this has been asked many times.

This should be fairly simple and arms length (loosely coupled with all the other features), and so I hope this gets prioritized and pops up for immediate consideration.

Experts if this can be created using NYQUIST macros let me know as well, so I can implement it and share with everyone.

regards Sri.

2

If you want to raise an enhancement request you really need to do so on Muse’s GitHub issues log:

You will need a GitHub account to do that, but those are free.

Peter

3

I just create a folder per project, and put everything relating to that project (the AUP3 file, audio files, notes, …) into that folder. It’s a more flexible solution than a built-in note pad.

1 Like
4

Waxcylinder

Thanks for the tip and I will try to do that.
As a developer/technologist I can certainly deal with it.

But this misses the point of this forum/topic.
Why send users to and have to deal with a FORUM that is off-track for normal users who may not be developers - but who can be and will be savvy about the features and feedback.

regards Sri.

5

Steve

Thanks for your quick response.

But I have to disagree.
What you are suggesting may sound like a flexible solution, but it is actually a Deflection.
You are ignoring and downplaying the importance and benefits of “Integration and Integrated Working”.

Fyi, I am coming from decades of research and products immersion on Integrated Software Engineering environments.

I think we have already had discussion about other tools which do that and they are wonderful. For example Cakewalk…

Having said that, let me be sure that I am not missing something you may be saying but I am not catching.

a) I routinely do Audacity recording in one machine and move the project to another machine. Are you suggesting that your suggestion will some how move the “notes folder” behind the scenes??
b) How about getting the “notes folders” to be in sync? When I move the project back and forth (which I have to for various reasons?
c) How do I make the the folders move between Windows and MAC?

Thanks in advance.

regards Sri.

6

Copy / move the complete folder (zip it if sending via the Internet). For more complex projects that use multiple assets, all the assets are in the same folder.

It isn’t a “notes folder” that I’m suggesting, but a “project folder”, that contains everything relating to the project.

At a minimum, it will contain just the AUP3 files. In complex projects it could contain multiple AUP3 files, audio files, text files, video files, images, icons, MIDI files, Instrument definitions, Nyquist scripts, … everything that is required for the project.

How do you make AUP3 files move between Windows and Mac?

I typically use a network drive as a common resource for all computers on my network. If I’m working somewhere that neither connection to the network, or connection to the Internet is not available, I use a USB memory stick.

7

Steve thanks for the further diligence on this.

You can see from your own reply the unnecessary complexity and management overheads this adds to the User for something which is very important to them.

I do not see why “Engineering/Development/Products” would be or should be fighting this.

After all, Computers/Systems should earnestly and fully focus on relieving “every form of Tedium” for users, and never ever try to reduce them to “(sic) Laborers”. So they can apply their energies on “non routine”.

I still cannot understand and resonate with the basis for such “Tradeoff / Optimization” you are suggesting. I can certainly buy that “We do not have enough resources; We have many things to do and so we will keep it in active list for prioritization” etc. But rejecting an “integrated notes” support altogether, and advocating out-of-band mechanisms is troubling to me.

I would appreciate your expertise regarding tips for a seed mechanism using NYQQUIST macro.

regards Sri.

8

Good point - @waxcylinder Both me and the QA folks check the forum more or less daily, so there probably never is a need to send someone to Github.

Regarding the feature itself: I am aware of it. It doesn’t have priority as we’re currently in the process of redoing the entire UI, so anything UI related is on the backburner until that’s complete.

I’ll also say that I’ve never been super happy with project notes as implemented in other software - a single text field doesn’t really lend itself to the way I like to structure my thoughts, which tends to be much more “post-it notes with string connecting them” style. So in my mind, to make project notes a meaningful improvement over just keeping a .txt alongside the project file, or using labels, it’d need to be a tad more sophisticated than a mere text box.

9

No I don’t. The “overhead” is simply creating a folder for the project.

Let’s say that you are working on a project, and it requires a specific Nyquist plug-in. How do you manage that across two computers?

Say that you are working on a project, and it will require multiple sound effects which you have downloaded from a website (not yet added to the project). How do you manage that?

Say that your project has “technical notes”, and an email with the client’s specifications, and lyrics, and a narration script? How do you manage that?

The way that I manage all of these scenarios, is to create a folder for the project, and put everything related to the project into that folder. I can copy / move this folder to any computer, anywhere in the world, safe in the knowledge that I have everything required by the project inside that folder.

I fail to see why you find this approach so arduous / difficult.

In the olden days, we used to record on magnetic tape. I would use large, labeled cardboard folders to keep the tape recording, my project notes, order details, and everything else that went with the project together. It is much more convenient now that I can use “digital folders” rather than cardboard.

10

See the Screen Shot. Project Notes is in the right hand side. It is a large text area (pure text not Rich Text though). It is SIMPLE. It is integral part of the Project, with Simple View/Edit/Save … actionable.

I write myself copious notes about the project, status, what I have done, what is pending, performances, styles. I will be quite lost without these. I like the way it is integrated into the project. Just this simple mechanism wins all over all other arms-length external OS specific, unintegrated user managed Folders. Such Folders can obviously capture all kinds of things, but not addressing the basic needs does not making any sense.

Steve, You can also see this – and hopefully receptive to the importance of it. In your note you talk about packing all assets into one folder. The folder approach can keep all the external assets in it, but it is not a substitute for simple Personal Notes, Reminders, Self-Instructions which are just Opaque to Audacity and to its data/process models, Latter uses are even more compelling for Audacity to support - as they are “audacity-specific/aware”.

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11

Bigger view of the Notes area in the Screen Shot (from Cakewalk),.

Undocked as a separate panel/window.

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12

I’ve set up a quick poll here to gauge interest in the feature:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHUCowIfMiQd_IeLDaftV_g/community?lb=UgkxOYypSPSHV1OddvK9BF3AQvhNy8oU4Lnh

13

Which part of this proposal is the more important for you:

  1. Having a text editor built into the audio editor
  2. The ability to embed text files inside the AUP3 project file
14

Steve

Thanks for your note and opening some thoughtful consideration to the essential need.

1) I think this would be similar what I show in the screenshot.

This implies a singleton “Notes” object included and integrated in the project.

File->Notes →
Open
Close

Opens the Note Panel UI with
Edit (Cut, Copy, Paste…), Save, Discard, Close actionable.

2. I think this would probably accomplish the same end purpose, with the “Singleton Text” object being part of the project ( & life cycle).

I am not sure about the “seamless integrated” usage here.

I visualize this minimally as follows, supporting Zero-One note object. Pretty much like (1).

Instead of being “Singleton” supporting more Text Objects would be added delight… along with additional needed actionable.

File->Notes->
Add
List →
→ Edit-> , ,
Delete

Overall

Both approaches look simple and nice.
The difference might be near term efforts tradeoff, favoring arms-length, surface level integration.

regards Sri.

15
  • What about being able to print the notes?
  • Would you want to be able to export the notes as a text file and/or a pdf file?
  • Would you want to be able to import notes from a text file?
  • The example that you posted appears to have a space to insert a graphic. Would you want that feature?
  • The example that you posted also seems to provide a template for inserting the title, artist and other information. Would you want that?
  • I imagine that the ability to include musical notation would be very useful for some users.
16

Steve all your observations and ideas are excellent points and very perceptive about how the basic need/Support would/might evolve. Very well worth laying them out on a progression of mini-roadmap.

I was trying “not to be greedy” and was hoping to get some basic immediate support to get going. Anything beyond that would be simply great, and once the basic is in place it would be more proper to evolve it based on broader user base feedback.

I read the comments on the poll and it is revealing to see that users are experiencing the need and using ingenious approaches to dealing with it.

Regards Sri.

17

It’s generally helpful to state what you’d ultimately need as root causes are much easier to work with. The difference between easy and difficult can be hard to gauge from the outside (and sometimes even from the inside!). For example, if a use case you had was noting down all files you used in the project for later copyright clearing, having a thing that automatically logs the files you import might actually be easier than even adding the simple text box you propose.

18

LWinterberg

I agree with the general thrust of what you are saying.

Sorry for the long note below - hopefully it is not confusing… as that can easily happen when one covers many things (yet easily miss covering all the points).

YES. Without a good understanding of the actual architecture and implementation of the system - one cannot make “good” judgments about ease and difficulty of a enhancement idea.

YES. Useful to know what would be needed ultimately - having a good view of the potential, full, true evolution /migration path of the “enhancement idea” for a robust design architecture while implementation may proceed in stages.

NO. The example you give about “log the files you import automatically” are kinds of things I will certainly and completely keep out.

*This is an important line I will draw. *
For keeping the requirements semantics and scope precise and contained.

I would like the “Notes Blob” a term, I just coined for the ease of discussion here, remain Opaque to Audacity, and also not Audacity-Aware. The contents of the “Notes Blob” are managed by Users to suit their needs and meanings are known only to them.

Additional Clarifications About the Requirement.

a) Notes Blobs

From my perspective, I will declare them as text-oriented.
Meaning will not contain Media (picture, audio, video or other complex mimes).
User can certainly add include textual Links/URLS to external documents.

b) Blob Editor & UI

Provide functions for viewing, text-editing the contents of the Blob.
Copy/Paste from Clipboards

Plus Print, Export, Import (load a file from the file system).

c) Context & Blob Browser

I had not talked about these or elaborated this so far.

Context represents the attachment point in Audacity for this Blob.
In case of Cakewalk - Blobs are attached to the Overall Project.

This is what was implicitly suggesting so far.

Over time I would like to be able attach Blobs to different elements in Audacity, specific to “selected” contexts. That contextual information stands to add significantly to the organization and clarity of the Blobs.

Like,

Project, Track, Clips, Regions, Audio Data etc.
(I am just giving some illustrative examples suggesting that they may be added, in principle, to any element in the Audacity Data Schema, within reasons of Granularity and Utility).

This impacts Cardinalities.

The Project to Blob 1:1 relationship would start changing.

We may allow 1:N here.
Also Project can have many Blobs resulting from transitive closure of the Blobs attached at lower levels in the data hierarchy.

We can have
A Track may have One or more Blobs.
Similarly Clips etc.

As a result we would need a Blobs Browser to see all the Blobs as well as Navigate/Open Blobs attached to an Audacity Element.

Clearly this would take Blobs to a different League of Functionality and Complexity.

To me this is not even “Near Future” and hence I was not stating it in my original needs/requirements note.

Overall

I will summarize as follows:

Requirements are (a) and (b) only, for the foreseeable future.
(c) gives an idea of the key evolution path from my perspective.

I am not opposed to automated tracking and annotation of Blobs by Audacity for various operations - like Copyright clearing example you mentioned. Along those lines, I would probably vote for auto capturing/tracking do/undo actions.

Thanks to the team. The real time non-destructive effects capability has significantly ameliorated and obviated that problem - which I was struggling with, before.

regards Sri.

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19

I asked for this feature in 2017 when I was recording audiobooks and needed notes about chapters, characters, etc. Now I’m just recording blogs, so each project is a simpler one-off.

I think there is a strong case to be made for proximity: the ability to pop up (or have a panel, a la Cakewalk example above) an editor. Simpler than Alt-Tab to an external editor.

My other argument is for a single file. Audacity made life simpler when it moved to sqlite and abandoned the XXX_data folder + XXX.aup file structure as I regularly move projects between machines. A separate text file would reintroduce this complexity.

20

What if Audacity supported embedding files in the AUP3 database? For example, importing .txt, or .png, or .pdf, or .ny, or .doc, and being able to export them again? This would allow you include notes, artwork, or other associated data in the project.

1 Like