Although that is a solution, it is not a great solution, if that is what you suggest, then why not just make 242 the next update, do it now, why not? But you won’t as you know it is not a great solution, it only makes the problem worse… Bloating the app with stupid effects is what the problem is, put the app on a diet, remove the bloat, problem fixed…
There haven’t been any new effects added to Audacity in a long time.
Let me check…
Ah yes, the last effect to be added was “Label Sounds”, which replaced “Silence Finder” and “Sound Finder”, so that was a net reduction in the number of effects. Before that was the “Spectral Delete” effect back in Apr 3, 2020.
I understand your frustration about recent versions of Audacity not working for you - I share that frustration as recent versions don’t work well for me either (I’m on Linux), but I do think it’s rather arrogant of you to keep saying that there’s an easy solution when it is clear that you know next to nothing about software development.
Agree there is arrogance, but it is not mine, it is the development team that is taking the app down a path that is not theirs to take… What is wrong with an app that is functionally naked, it is just a basic waveform that can only do 1 thing, that is highlight and delete, and any other function or task is what we term “plug in” installed by the user as they need it, I cannot see any logical reason why Audacity needs all this built in functionality for everyone, maybe 2 versions, Standard and Pro?
Right now 3 days before 2023, the app for M1 2020 Macbook Air, simply does not work, the 1px/second painful crawl from pixel to pixel, is simply not a great advert for the app…
The M1 version was not made obvious, when I go to the https://www.audacityteam.org/download/mac/ it auto starts the non M1 version, on advice here, I uninstalled, saw there is a M1 version, again the very same issues, and on advice here, I tried the Rosetta 2, which according to Apple support would not be triggered if Ventura flagged an Intel version of the App, Audacity Intel 322 was not flagged as requiring Rosetta 2, so I did the terminal install of Rosetta 2…No changes, still slower than frozen nutella…
I suggest a beta version, stripped of all tools, effects, everything, only the ability to delete highlighted sections… then see what happens…
I’m afreaid that it is totally theirs to take - Muse own the project, they manage the project, they decide its direction
A lot of people want a lot more than that.
I only use Audacity for very simple tasks
a) I digitized my LP and tape collection some years ago
b) These days I record webcasts and radio broadcasts off-air, do a little trimming and some very light editing (normalize/amplify) mainly and then export for later or portable listening.
Audacity has always worked fine for that (on Windows and on Mac) and the latest versions too with no speed/performance impediment.
I’m afraid that I somehow don’t see that happening - Muse’s vision as Steve said earlier is to make the app a lot more DAW like.
There may be some light at the end of the tunnel as my understanding is that for later Audacity versions Muse are considering various user-selectable modes: expert would have all functions tuned on whereas novice/simple may turn off a lot of functionality (other modes may be say multi-track recording - or podcasting).
Peter.
Muse do not own the project, if by own you mean it is a private for profit company.
They may take a version down any path they choose, it is not right to make this the only version most users would interact with, being that it is open source, not everyone is competent to figure out source code and development…
All I am asking for is a simple to use, lightweight functional app, that does very little, and if I need more advanced tools, then a simple plug in would do the task… What is wrong with this approach of Audacity Standard, and Audacity Advanced/Pro/Studio… 1 version that is just a simple waveform, highlight and delete, with the option to update with plug in, and 1 version that is resource advanced, with all sorts advanced features???
Audacity has lost focus, plain and simple, gone too far with the false belief they own the product, nowhere on the audacity website is the word “Muse” mentioned… They have hidden who “owns” the app, as there is no legal owner, either they own it, or it is open source…
I am not being difficult, just pleading for sanity and reason for 2023…2 versions, 1 simple, 1 advanced… please???
Logged as:
Windows: use of the right/left arrows is laggy/jumpy with full screen (or wider than default window size) #4132
It’s a regression on 2.3.3 on Windows
Not tested on Mac yet and I don’t have a Linux box to test on.
Peter
I can assure you that Muse do indeed effectively own the project - they own the trademark and the branding
The point about it being “open source” means that anyone. YOU included, have the legal right to take a copy of the source code and modify the source any way you wish. But you can’t sell or distribute it as “Audacity” as that would be a trademark breach/infringement.
There do happen to be a couple of branches of Audacity that were started a year or so ago when some folk didn’t like the automatic update advice or the voluntary error reporting back to Muse. But mostly they have petered out now and are likely to gain little or no marketing traction - plus they are poorly supported.
Also as it is “open source” you have the right to make code changes in your branch on Muse’s GitHub as Pull Requests - but Muse have the absolute right to accept or reject those, Some, those that align with Muse’s thinking or fix simple bugs, do get pulled into Muse’s Audacity app.
To do either of the above require considerable programming skill - failing that you can open up “Discussions” or “Enhancement Requests” on Muse’s GitHub (which is what I do these days now that I am not on Audacity Team any more).
Peter.
Testing with 3.2.3 on macOS 12.6.2
The situation is MUCH WORSE on Mac
-
the cursor does not visually move until the arrow key is released
-
the “cursor” in the Timeline does move, bit it crawls extremely slowly across the top of the waveform waveform
-
when the arrow key is released then the cursor is repainted on the waveform at the same position as the “cursor” in the Timeline.
I have added this to the GitHub bug-thread.
I agree that this makes the use of the left/right arrows to move the cursor effectively absolutely unusable on Mac.
@Steve, any chance you can test on Linux and add to the bug report please?
UPDATE
Testing on Mac shows that (unlike on Windows where this is a regression on 2.3.3) this present on all 64-bit versions of Audacity om Mac i.e. 2.3.1 onwards. I cannot test earlier on Mac as prior to 2.3.1 Audacity on Mac was only 32-bit and my Macbook is 64-bit an Apple do not allow 32-bit apps to run on 64-bit Macs.
Peter
-
the cursor does not visually move until the arrow key is released…
Yes, thought this was a feature, was wrong, thanks for picking it up… -
the “cursor” in the Timeline does move, bit it crawls extremely slowly across the top of the waveform waveform
For me it is about 1 pixel per second, that is real life seconds, and not 1 second of timeline… -
when the arrow key is released then the cursor is repainted on the waveform at the same position as the “cursor” in the Timeline.
Again I thought this was a feature, how this was useful, did think it was strange, but now it is not a feature, now all this sort of makes sense…
You can run 32bit apps, the way I set up my mac is triple booting, Mavericks for 32bit apps, High Sierra for cross over apps, and Big Sur for 64 bit apps, the laptop is 10 yrs old, and I have a 2020 macbook air for video editing…
It’s a bit jumpy / laggy for me, but not critically bad - it’s usable but not pretty.
It’s a “feature” on Mac - doesn’t happen on Windows
Same on my five year old Macbook Pro with 12.6.1 Monterey - Apple won’t let me upgrade to the latest macOS
As above, it’s a “feature” on Mac - doesn’t happen on Windows
I think I’ll pass on that, I have enough complications in my life - and basically I am a Windows bod …
Peter
Justine:
For me, the cursor moves faster than “1 pixel per second” when moving it with the arrow key held down. I cannot verify your assertion that Audacity is “slower and frozen Nutella”. I’ve compared version 2.4.2 with version 3.2.3 on my M1 MacBook Air and I can’t see any significant difference in speed when dealing with a single stereo track.
Give scrubbing a try.
If you’re MacBook doesn’t have enough ports or they are too close together, get a hub, don’t blame Audacity (or Apple - you could have got a MacBook Pro). Get a trackball with multiple buttons that you can customize to improve your workflow, don’t expect Audacity (or Apple) to make a version just for you.
As Peter points out, you are not the only Audacity user, and your wish list is different from that of other users.
It’s not just Muse that has made Audacity what it is today. Most of the functionality in the latest version can be found in version 2.4.2 - effects, generators, spectral editing, scrubbing, clips, multi-track recording and playback, labels, FFmpeg support, play-at-speed, timer recording, punch-and-roll, … the list goes on. If you go back to that version (which you can and should if you don’t like what you see in the latest version) you will find a full-featured audio recorder, editor and mixer.
Yes, Audacity is open source, so anyone could make a version to your specifications. I think it is telling that no-one has even tried. You’re not simply asking for some features to be hidden in a “simple” version - you’re asking for a version customized to your ideal workflow.
And for a bit of balance here, I quite like version 3.2.3. I like the grab bars for moving clips (no need to switch to the Move Tool any more), and I really like the real-time (non-destructive) effects. I’m not keen on the recording and playback volume sliders being integrated into the meters, but that a quibble. To Muse’s credit they put back the cut/copy/paste toolbar (which I never use and am happy to leave turned off). I’m agnostic on smart clips (and I think the instances where they might bloat or slow down projects are edge cases).
In the end it sounds like Audacity is not for you. I wish you luck in finding an audio editor that meets your stringent requirements. Do a search on DuckDuckGo for “audio editor for Mac”.
– Bill
When I hold down the right arrow key, the vertical playhead in the timeline, moves very very slowly, it moves the width of the vertical line in 1 real time clock second, not 1 second bounce in the timeline, that is what I mean by slower than frozen nutella, it is just way too slow to be functional, now this cannot be right for an app on a 64bit machine… Be reasonable…
I am reporting, and you should never tell a user to leave, to not use the app, that does not help build the brand, and 2nd it does not fix the problem… I offered to share my screen so that the developer can see the issue, maybe I am weak at explaining the issue…
Really to say to a user, don’t use the app is just poor…very low…
Peter:
I’m using a 2020 MacBook Air with M1 chip and macOS 13.0.1.
When I press and hold the right-arrow key I see what you describe in #1 and #3, BUT …
The behaviour seems to depend on the key repeat rate as set in System Settings. With the key repeat rate set at maximum the editing cursor (in the waveform) is redrawn, although the movement is jumpy, and movement along the waveform is acceptably fast.
So the “crawling” may be due to your key repeat rate.
This is different from the scrubbing keys (U and I) which seem to detect that the key is being held down, then move through the waveform at a rate dependent on the zoom level.
So my guess is that the arrow key function was originally designed to be used for fine-tuning the cursor position (or the edges of a selection), not for moving quickly through the waveform.
I’ve been playing with scrubbing (I don’t use it in my workflow), and the keyboard controls seem to be quite well implemented. While holding one of the scrubbing keys you can change the zoom level (thus changing the speed of the scrubbing to home in on a point in the audio). Using the [ and ] key you can mark “in and out” points on the fly. Using Keyboard Preferences one could re-map these key to match up with what are apparently the “standards” for video editing (we need Koz to weigh in here).
– Bill
No Apology for your rudeness Bill? Really you are bringing the great name of Audacity into disrepute…
The fact of the matter, there is a problem, and it should be fixed, telling a user to not use the app, when that user has offered to screen share, has made great suggestions, there is a need for both a full function app, and a bare bones, simple no frills app, that was what Audacity was, a basic app, and along the path, this has been forgotten, the developers are wrong and I will call them out for this, 1 app is a mistake, agree or not, not up to you to decide anything, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it… rather just stay off the forum…
You have not discussed any of my suggestions, one has to wonder why…
As I pointed out in my post that you reported, Audacity was never the simple app you allude to. It was not designed with editing audio for video in mind, nor to mimic the functions of a video editor. The additions of new features has been primarily determined by the interests of the programmers who volunteer to work on the project.
I’ve tried to understand your frustration, and I made a suggestion (try the scrubbing function). I’ve tested the action of the arrow keys for moving the cursor when stopped (on three different Macs) and reported my observations.
Audacity is not for everyone. Some will want more DAW-like functions and may prefer Ardour or Logic. Some may prefer the feature set of Audition or Ocean. Others may prefer the stripped-down functionality of Fission. You may be waiting weeks, or months, or years for the developers to decide that the issue you’ve reported is worth addressing - that’s not up to me or anyone else on this forum. Who knows, the issue you’ve identified (and Peter and I have confirmed) may be addressed in version 3.3 (currently targeted for March). Your other suggestions may also be taken up (but you really should make those suggestions on GitHub as Peter has pointed out). So I respectfully suggest that you try other options. It’s not about hyping Audacity or protecting the brand. It’s about admitting that Audacity is not (in the near future, at least) going to meet your requirements. It’s about helping you find audio editing software the meets your needs now. I don’t see that as rude, I see that as realistic and helpful.
– Bill
Try setting the Key repeat rate in System Settings to maximum.
– Bill
Hi Bill
Try the key repeat rate? Thanks but no, I prefer my key repeat rate as set by the factory, changing the rate would only encourage the developers of Audacity to not fix the app…So it will remain what Apple set it as default…Not a great solution…never is…
Audacity is an audio editor, who or where it is used, is not up to you to decide, there is nothing wrong with having 2 versions, there really should be, and why there is not, is bad decision making on behalf of the developers…
I have no idea what you mean by scrubbing… All I need is to hold the right or left arrow key, it moves the playhead left or right along the waveform, at some speed faster than 1 pixel/second, holding down a modifying key, increases the speed by some set factor…This is not a hard concept to grasp…
You were rude, not once, but twice… I reported, turns out that was a mistake…
When I studied system design a long time ago, the one lesson that was impressed on us, about how to judge whether a system was a great design or not, was to observe the users, and how the users use the system, if your idea about how a system should be, and how the users use, maybe you should change the design, and often this is the case, so for example, in my case, assume there is a medical reason that a user may nor may not be able to do certain things, and all it takes is a simple change of key mapping…
It is always a good idea to observe how someone uses a tool, then if you see them using the tool in a certain way, and this is not how you intended the tool to be used, then maybe change the design of the tool, look for fast “scrubbing” through a clip, it makes sense to use the 4 cursor keys, along with a modifying key, or J K L with a modifying…dealers choice…
I work in the media, and Audacity is a popular audio editor for many radio journalists, they need the app to do certain things, and do those things fast, that is shuttle up and down [that is left and right along the waveform) to find the in and out points, so being able to use the cursor keys in this case, left right for fine tune, shift+ left/right for shuttle, the up/down cursor for zoom in/out is an effective efficient way of editing audio, or it should be…
My late mom, she grew up long before the “invention” of the computer, and more so, the mouse, she used a keyboard as back then there was only dumb terminals that required only a keyboard and the 4 cursor keys to navigate, then along comes win3.1, 95, 98, etc, I tried and tried to get her to use a mouse, as that is how we interact with the system, moving that white pointer by dragging the mouse across the mouse pad, she battled with this, and one day, after observation, I realized that the problem was that once the mouse stops, it resets the co-ordinates, it has no memory of 0,0…hence the constant going off the mouse pad…
I bought a cheap graphics tablet, and set the tablet to be in the same aspect as the screen, all she had to do was touch the pen to the tablet, and the pointer would jump to that point on the screen, it changed how she used the pc, she could do so much more, and she loved it…
The moral is that the developers should be aware of how the app is used, and to accept that maybe their ideas are somewhat flawed, maybe just maybe the user is right after all, look there is nothing wrong with adding effects and such, but maybe they should observe how the tool is used, then maybe a better tool results…
Maybe you are trying to edit on a plane, a train, in a car, and using the trackpad, or a mouse is just not possible, having the cursor keys and holding down the shift key, maybe improves workflow, maybe not for you, but for someone else…How great would it be, if this “change” helps someone… I sure would love it… As I did, the moment I got the call from my mom… She bought a new 4 in 1 printer/scanner and installed the software herself, using the tablet to press the next next next ok buttons… Man it felt great…
What am I trying to say? There is a problem, and that maybe just maybe there is a great case for 2 versions of the app, that has benefits for a wider audience than if you only had 1 version, a simple to use app that just does the basics, that is low on system resource of the host machine, that is simple to learn, simple to use, just does what is needed for simple audio editing…
A 2nd high spec version for those that 1-cannnot afford high end Logic, or other brands, but need something more, look pc’s in certain parts of the rock are expensive, so you make do, I use a 2006 Mac Pro running final cut pro 7, as we simply cannot justify upgrading at this point, this impacts on certain tasks, but we manage…
A no frills, light editor and a full spec editor makes every sense, some folks I am sure like I have, have not found anything close to Audacity, but there are issues with Audacity that may be eliminated if there was a simple user interface… Maybe that is the problem. Maybe the interface needs work, instead of the code, has this been considered and rejected? If rejected, the reasons were??
Why not at least try, 2 beta versions, 1 without effects/plug in. one with???
@Justine:
I have closed your report - Bill is most definitely not a “Troll”, nor do I think he was “abusive”.
Bill (like me) is one of the official Forum Elves who manage this Forum on behalf of Audacity users. We along with Steve and Koz on this Forum used be core members of the old Audacity Team (before it was bought by Muse) - we- provided QA, user support and documentation.
Bill has made a particularly stunning addition to Audacity, the “Amazing Imagemap” on the front page of the Audacity Manual which lets you click on Audacity GUI elements in the image to take you to the relevant page in the Manual - this was Bill’s idea and implementation. When we showed this to the developers at our Team meeting back in 2014 they were totally gob-smacked and amazed by this.
I agree with Bill that Audacity is not for everyone - for some folk there are better tools, but for millions of us Audacity is an extremely useful tool - and you can’t argue with the price …
Top Tip
Like you, I also search for in and out points. I hate Audacity’s scrubbing for this, it is totally unlike any other scrubbing I use (e.g. video editing on my Mac). What I use instead is the Timeline Quick-Play that Steve provided many years ago.
See: https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/timeline.html#tqp
Peter.