Tiny clicks (encore)

Audacity Help Forum Windows
1

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, and there are as many views and solutions as the number of users and contributors.

When I look it up online - again, everyone has an opinion and solution which work for some people but not for others.
Even I thought that finally I solved this issue - nope. Somehow, it has come back.

The issue: When recording my voice through my Blue Yeti Pro mic, I get super tiny clicks which are often joined together.

At some point I downloaded the De-clicker plugin which does work, however it affects the quality of the audio, which I don’t like, and while for most people it would be unnoticeable, for my super sensitive hearing it is bad.

Since I don’t have the instructions how to reduce the audio damage (which settings do what), I use it only sparingly for the specific identified clicks.

A predominant view is that the buffer overflow causes those clicks, so I have tested all lengths from 0 to 600. Yes, the number and intensity of clicks changes, but the change is not predictable or stable, and I still am not able to stop them completely. I run one test - the clicks are almost gone. I run another test - they are back as bad as before.

Yes, I have eliminated other programs taking up the resources etc although I don’t feel this is the cause.

And here is the kicker: when I upgraded Audacity to 3.2.0 - the clicks were almost completely (95%) gone.

but then, when due to the heavy and slow behaviour of smart clips significantly stalling my workflow, I had to revert back to 3.1.3 - and the clicks came back.

So - as much as your developers would hate to admit - it looks like the clicks issue IS linked to the older versions of Audacity.

Questions:

  1. could you please advise if we will get the option to disable the smart clips? because now it looks like I have an impossible choice to make: between the slow and cumbersome DAW or the clicks.

  2. do you have the instructions (explanation in layman terms) of the de-clicker plugin which was offered free by one of the users? My main question is which setting do I need to change to minimise the overall reduction of the audio quality (loss of richness) when I need to run it over not just for one word but the whole sentence or paragraph.

thanks

Anna

2

I am glad to hear that 3.2.0 seems to be working better for you in this regard. :smiley: The Audacity developers have been continuing to work on a major restructuring of the code base. I have noticed many speed improvements in Audacity since 2.4.2.

Personally I use a battery powered H2n Zoom for my recordings and I have no issue with this. If you need perfect recordings from your PC, you might also explore some software that uses the ASIO interface which purportedly does a better job than the standard Windows audio interfaces.

Here is the developers discussion regarding smart clips: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/3820

Perhaps you can record in the one and export to the other.

Personally, I don’t have click issues, but you might gain some insight reading this user post: https://forum.audacityteam.org/t/updated-de-clicker-and-new-de-esser-for-speech/34283/301

3

thanks @jademan

Personally I use a battery powered H2n Zoom for my recordings and I have no issue with this. If you need perfect recordings from your PC, you might also explore some software that uses the ASIO interface which purportedly does a better job than the standard Windows audio interfaces.

interestingly, do not have the click issue when recording on Zoom, but only when recording voice directly to Audacity. Perhaps this is a clue.

thanks for the links.

Since I’m not a developer or IT geek, I"m not on github. But I was able to read the discussion and note a few interesting points there.

turning off the feature isn’t the answer. Fixing performance & file size issues is.

why not? As a user I disagree. An option to DISABLE the smart clips should be easier and quicker to implement than fixing performance and file size issues, which I assume are much more complex issues to solve. I detect here the developers’ emotional attachment to those smart clips not wanting to let them go, regardless. I for one, have no need for them, and will never use them - so what’s the point of enforcing them on me (and other users in the same boat)?

I am glad to see that the two key major issues have been picked up and highlighted:

  1. copying and pasting small clips into another project (pastes the whole clip)
  2. the overall significant degradation of performance, taking few second tasks to few minutes which becomes unfeasible for the editor working to tight deadlines with large projects

for these reasons I have downgraded my version to before the smart clips issue. I do use two Audacity windows for most of my projects, so QUICK copying and pasting between them is vital for my workflow. I work very fast and can’t afford to wait 5 minutes for the large clip which I don’t need, to resolve in the second window. Likewise, I can’t cope with the significant degradation of performance even in the same window.

Quantum wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:04 pm
it looks like I have an impossible choice to make: between the slow and cumbersome DAW or the clicks.

Perhaps you can record in the one and export to the other.

I think there is a misunderstanding :slight_smile: I was talking about two versions of Audacity. I can’t have both versions open on my computer - or can I…? either way, that would be too much, also putting a significant resources strain on my PC.

The link to the thread about the de-clicker plugin is super useful and also recent, thank you. I’ve missed it as it is in the developers thread which I never go to :slight_smile:

final question - will any improvements re the smart clips be released as a new version? how will I find out?

many thanks
Anna

4

Don’t feel that you are the only one. Note the best place for a rant is here: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions; well on second thought, I don’t know that the developers read that either.

A technique to do QUICK copying without having to wait 5 minutes for the large, unneeded clip to be resolved has already been mentioned. It does take a few more steps, but it shouldn’t take 5 minutes.

  1. Select a small portion of the large clip to be copied. (from the Old Project)
  2. Tracks > Add New Track (still in the Old Project)
  3. Paste selected item into the New Track (still in the Old Project)
  4. Tracks > Mix and Render (still in the Old Project)
  5. Select Clip from rendered clip (still in the Old Project)
  6. Switch to the New Project and Paste there. ==> In the New Project Now.
    Here, only a pointer to the large clip gets copied, and that pointer is deleted when you do the Mix And Render. The key is to do the Mix and Render in the Old Project.

Well, you can - but they won’t both run simultaneously. As this behavior is different from most programs it can be confusing unless you know what you are doing so I don’t normally recommend it, particularly if Audacity seems to behave erratically.

By checking the github link mentioned in my previous post - that is the only thing I know of.

5

thanks.

the suggested steps take still too long and are too involved. My second window/project is only temporary, which I delete once the project is finished.
can’t put in so much effort it in.

as I said, I work very fast so I need to move between the two audacity windows without any delay - copy - paste, copy-paste , as I can do now and previous versions. Anything that takes more than 2 seconds is too long.

Maybe the developers will come to their senses, leave their egos behind and listen to what users are saying, what they do want/need and what the don’t.

as they say, hospitals would be great without patients and schools would be fantastic without children.

6

Assuming that you haven’t turned off the automatic update checking (which advises you when a new version is available) you will get notified of a new version when you next launch Audacity.

The changes for each release can be read in the Release Notes.

The good news:
I’ve recently been testing (in a developer’s branch build) the new feature which gives you the option, when copying a selection from a clip, to paste just the selection and not the whole “smart clip”. This works well with a dialog on the paste action and an accompanying prefs setting.
It needs a little polish to make it properly accessible to VI users who use screen readers.

I’m hoping that it will make it into the upcoming 3.2.3 release.

Peter.

7

God Bless and Alleluia!

I saw the Light :slight_smile:

how can I turn on Automatic Update checking? - I can’t see this option.

Anna

8

“Edit menu > Preferences” then select “Application” in the left column, and you should see the option in the right hand pane.

9

aaahaaaa!

got ya. I never knew it was there :slight_smile:

thank you!

10

just one more question remains -

if the copying and pasting issue can be fixed, that’s great.

However, since the complex processing of the smart clips will remain, will the overall slow and heavy performance improve?

11

Well Muse have it on their radar

Performance and file size issues when copying and pasting a small portion of a very large clip #3820
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/3820

It’s got a P2 rating and it is marked a regression - so I’m assuming that Muse are concerned about it.

But I’m worried that they may be thinking that the fix for the copy just the selection to a different project may be the end of this issue …

Peter

12

that’s what I’m thinking.

When two serious issues are highlighted but only is addressed and the other one ignored…

well. We shall see.

13

I think we need to cross our fingers. :frowning: I just tested the 3.2.3 beta here: https://nightly.link/audacity/audacity/workflows/build/release-3.2.3

14

let’s cross everything we can! :smiley: :question: :confused:

15

ok. this is my final call for help, as at this point I feel like ditching Audacity and buying another DAW, seriously.

I don’t believe this is my mic. I have reached out to Yeti Blue support with a sample of those clicks - they have no clue what they are and have not heard this issue before. They have been selling hundreds of those mics for years. Surely, it this was the mic’s fault, they would have done something about it by now.

I have no other audio programs open or anything else that would compete with Audacity for the resources. I have a powerful computer with a powerful NVIDIA video audio card.

I have been playing with various buffer settings - some only reduce those clicks but don’t eliminate them.

The De-clicker plugin, while helpful, is still not the complete solution. There are clicks which it does remove and then there are those which it doesn’t.
Again, I have been playing with various settings and profiles

I have recorded an 8 minute voice clip. It took me 2 hours to fix all the issues. I simply cannot work at this pace.

what absolutely baffles me is that after so many years of audio recording NO ONE understands the cause of those clicks. After all possible causes have been eliminated and they still occur - no one, even the audio engineers, knows what’s causing them and how to prevent them.

I can see in the Task Manager that Audacity takes up only a small amount of CPU, Memory and Disc resources. It is NOT competing with any other program.

I’d love to hear from other Audacity users who use different mics (not Yeti Blue Pro) whether they are having the same clicks issue.

There are two types of clicks:

  1. a single, distinct click
  2. a range of very tiny clicks often very close to each other

I have clicks in my audio which are not removed by the De-Clicker plugin even when I seriously increase some settings.

The only possible explanations are:

1. Audacity is not compatible with Yeti Blue Pro mic (I often have problems with it not recognising the mic or not rescanning it)
2. This is an inherent issue with Audacity - if other mics have the same problem

I’ve got a new motherboard so the USB ports are ok.

I would really appreciate your advice and hear from other users with different mics if they are having the same issue.

This is driving me crazy and I have run out of patience. I’ve got a lot of projects to do and it is simply not feasible or me to spend so much time on postproduction fixing the stupid clicks which should NOT be there.

thanks
Anna

16

additional info

I have changed the mic (I have 2 Yeti Blue Pro) - and the clicks are still there, so it is not a fault of the mic.

this points to the incompatibility with Yeti, or some weakness in Audacity in handling USB mics.

I’d love to hear from other users with both Yeti and other mics if they are having the same issues.

I have eliminated all potential causes in my computer and mic, so that leaves the interface of my mic with Audacity.

17

and here is the kicker - or perhaps a clue:

since I can hear those clicks in my headphones during the recording, I will often repeat the same word or phrase, with exactly the same voice and tempo, once or even twice.

Each take generates DIFFERENT clicks, and some have NO CLICKS at all !!! :astonished: :unamused: :confused:

what is going on here??

18

UPDATE

I got another DAW. Recorded the same 8 min audio.

Still got some clicks but only about 1/5 of what I got on Audacity, and it is very easy to remove them without damaging the audio.

CASE CLOSED.