Adjustable Fade

It’s useful if you want to fade the level down a bit, then back up again (or vice verse). I would expect this to be a fairly common use of a “partial” fade.
When fading to or from silence it makes little difference. If we eventually have an improved “Text Envelope” then that will largely make up for this effect not being so “reversible”.

The important aspect that needs to be clear in the documentation about the “Mid-fade” setting is that increasing the value tries to “flex” the fade shape upward, but never higher than the higher end of the fade.




Similarly reducing it tries to flex the fade shape in the opposite direction but never lower than the lower end of the fade:

The further away from zero, the more “curved” the fade becomes (in one direction or the other), but is constrained such that a fade-down always decreases in amplitude and a fade-up always increases in amplitude.

Before I go into a lot of technical detail, it is my opinion that for the majority of users the technical detail does not matter. If they want to boost the mid point so as to avoid a dip during a crossfade, all they need to know is that they can do so by increasing the mid-fade amount. The mathematics behind it are largely irrelevant as long as they are able to use the plug-in effectively.

Now onto some technical details:

There are several reasons for why this behaviour is important, not least of which is to avoid clipping with positive values (as you pointed out), and to avoid phase reversal (waveform inversion) with negative values. This is also the way that it needs to be for cross-fading so that we can compensate for phase correlation.

This behaviour can also be seen in “logarithmic” curves (like the envelope tool) in which a small change in level appears to be almost linear, but when the start and end of the fade have a greater difference in amplitude, the curve is much more apparent.

Unlike the Initial Gain and Final Gain, the mid-fade setting is not calibrated in dB. Just as the amount of curvature of a log fade changes depending on the difference between start and end gains, so the curvature of this fade effect depends on the difference between initial and final gain. If the initial and final gain are close together then even at maximum or minimum settings there will be relatively little “curve”.


Re. the odd scale length:

When you click to the side of a slider (in a Nyquist plug-in), or use Ctrl+Left or Ctrl+Right, the slider moves in steps of 1/10th of the scale length.
The slider range is set to provide useful curves at the end positions and a useful range of curve shapes, in particular there is a nice “log curve” type shape when the slider is set to minimum and the Fade Taper is set to “Simple”.
With this scale there are two important curve shapes, “Equal Power” and the “legacy Cross Fade”, that occur at a setting of +0.5 (that’s just how the maths works out).
Unfortunately if the scale is set to a range of -1 to +1 (or +/- 100) then the steps go:
-1, -0.8, -0.6, -0.4, -0.2, 0.0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8, 1.0
which means that two of the most useful settings are quite fiddly to set.

If the slider range is -1.25 to +1.25 then the steps are:
-1.25, -1.0, -0.75, -0.5, -0.25, 0.0, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.25
which makes it a lot easier to set the slider to +0.5


My understanding of the word “taper” is:
A thin candle (obviously not relevant in this context)
To become gradually narrower or thinner toward one end.

There is also a relevant technical use for the word, which is to describe the rate of change of resistance of a potentiometer (such as a “fader”). Most commonly these are linear taper or “logarithmic” taper. “Logarithmic taper” is sometimes referred to a “audio taper” because it is commonly used for volume controls and similar devices.

I think the word “taper” is better than “curve” because a “linear taper” is not “curved”. Not only is it the correct technical term, I think that the common usage of the word “taper” conveys the idea of a fade that is getting gradually bigger (a fade in) or smaller (a fade out).

Is there a term that you prefer? Do we go back to “Fade Shape”?


As with previous versions the “Sine” taper is a raised sine/cosine curve when the mid-fade level is set at zero. As the amount of “curvature” is increased (increasing the mid-fade), the shape becomes less “S” shaped and more “C” shaped. At a setting of +0.5 it becomes a 1/4 cycle sine curve (previously described as the “Equal Power” curve. It is still a “sine” curve, but it is no longer “S” shaped. The term “S shaped” is OK as a preset, but it is a misnomer if the curvature can be altered.


In response to your previous criticism I was trying to make it crystal clear that when “Fade In” or “Fade Out” are selected, the Initial and Final gain sliders don’t do anything.
I presume that you mean for the name of the control to be “Ignore Level Controls:”
“Ignore” will look odd when “Use Controls” is selected, more so than “Override” I think, or do you have suggestions for rewording the choices?


One major problems with including more presets is that we would need to name them.

In my opinion the presets offered in Goldwave “Fade in” are inadequate. For example there are no presets for a fade out that starts gradually and then becomes steeper (commonly required for good crossfades).

Unlike the Goldwave “Volume Shaper” we do not have visual feedback in the form of a graph (I presume that the graph changes according to the selected preset). Without seeing it on a graph, what on earth does “Attack and Fade” mean? How many of those preset names describe clearly what will happen (unless you can see the graph)?

In version 23 we have two adjustable “shapes” (tapers). The first (default) is a simple “line” that flexes from one direction, through linear to the other direction. The second is a more advanced option that allows “double curves” (“S” shaped) to be produced and “bullet” shaped curves. For novice users the “Simple” curve is likely to be adequate most of the time. The “advanced” option provides useful curves for a variety of “advanced” tasks such as crossfading songs/music.

Did we decide which way up a “log” curve goes?

To create a log type curve (similar to the envelope tool), use the “Simple” taper and set the “Mid-fade” to minimum.

The slightly odd scale on the Mid-fade slider has been carefully designed so that useful curves (candidates for presets) are those that can be set easily. So yes we could have a preset for “mid-fade = +0.5” but what are we going to call it, and do we need it as a preset if we can easily set Mid-fade to +0.5? The major advantage of having adjustable shapes rather than a lot of presets is that if you apply a fade and on listening to it you decide that it needs a bit more (or less) boost in the middle, you can Undo and make an adjustment rather than trying to work out which of long list of cryptic descriptions will give you what you want.

Exactly.


Which would be what?
“Mid-Fade Cut/Boost” will not work with “Log” or with “Equal Power”.

:smiley:

Yes I’d like to revamp the Text Envelope. An option for dB or % is not problematic in a “Text Envelope” type effect because a text box can accept any value you like.

Is it common to fade back in by the exact same gain you faded in by?

I think we have to have an improved “Text Envelope”.

The problem is that with the other controls being dB gain, and a non-integer number like “1.25” it is not al all clear except by experimentation what value will produce any particular result.

Maybe, but the mid-fade gain change is still quite apparent I think.


Good , then I suggest we need a preset for that.

I thought you said “Legacy Cross Fade was” not actually important, nonetheless is this achieved with the “Simple (linear)” taper? And “Equal Power” with the Sine taper? To me, Equal Power has a fairly good case for a preset. How do people know +0.5 out of +/- 1.25 will produce that? I might have guessed + 0.62. :slight_smile:

If you were to translate these numbers internally (even supposing it could be done), so that entering -1 (understandable as a “minimum”) called -1.25 and +1 (understandable as a “maximum”) called +1.25, what number would call +0.5?

I don’t like “Fade Curve” or “Fade Shape” much, but I think “Fade Taper” could leave people guessing a bit - and fade may not be gradual depending what you ask for. I think I would vote for just “Fade Type” assuming the control doesn’t otherwise change.

I was thinking of the widespread use of “S” in other apps. One problem is that “Sine” already is a preset, as long as you don’t choose “Use Controls”.

Yes.

I read the control as “Controls for the Override Level” at first. It could be a bit confusing until you open the menu and see “Use Controls”. I agree “Ignore Level Controls” might be too strong. Perhaps we should thrash out if we can increase the number of presets, which has diminished since the last version. “Choose Preset or Use Controls” or “Use Preset or Controls” (with a menu item “Use Controls” as now) would I think be much less ambiguous than the “Preset or Custom” we had before.

Well we have two good candidates above in “Equal Power” and “nice log curve” (but we can’t call it that).

Is the Sine Fade Out essentially the profade (“musical”) fade out? If so, that needs to be clear in docs.

Soundtrack Pro seems to have decided ( http://documentation.apple.com/en/soundtrackpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=6%26section=16%26tasks=true )

You can only set “presets” with the slider if you know the value to set in the first place, and (to me) it is not as easy or quick as choosing a real preset from a menu.


Can you not do that even if we have more presets? Just choose “Use Controls”.


Presets may give novices a starting point to experiment from and encourage them to experiment more.

It’s a balance, but I think we’ve cut presets too much. I do see an advantage in the preset combining direction and “shape”.

See above for ideas.

"Fade In (log) " or “Fade Out (Eq Power)” or “Fade In (Sine)” or “Fade Out (linear)” or any of the other presets presented in the first “Use Preset or Controls” control don’t work with any of the other controls, as I envisage. Select one preset choice in one control and that’s all you need.

“Advanced” users choose “Use Controls” in “Use Preset or Controls” then make a choice of

  • “Fade Type” (or “Fade Taper” may be acceptable if it is now “advanced” usage)
  • “Mid Fade Cut/Boost” or whatever it is called
  • “Initial Gain” (or “High Point Gain”)
  • “Final Gain” (or “Low Point Gain”)


I think it’s unfortunate that folks who find % simpler to understand are forced to use a text box because they are presumed to be in the minority (though they may well be in the minority) :slight_smile:

I note Goldwave has a “50% to full volume (linear)” fade in preset and an equivalent for fade out. I guess it’s less useful than some of the other possible presets under consideration, but let’s see.



Gale

It is common to make the next fade “from” the same level as the previous fade went “to” (so this is nut a huge issue).


Agreed - and I’ve had some useful user feedback from the current version.


0.625

I’d have preferred to have made the sliding scale +/- 1, but then it is awkward to set it to the (very useful) +0.5 position.
“Hands on” helps. Try this plug-in (called “A Slider Test…”) to see what I mean:
slidertest.ny (460 Bytes)

I don’t find it particularly useful, but as you previously pointed out, some users may be familiar with it and like it. Imho it is important only so far as to avoid “regression”.
I do find that shapes similar to “Legacy Cross Fade” can be useful (mostly for fading in). By “similar” I mean with mid fade values around +0.4 to +0.8.


Either by experimenting or RTFM.
Because 0.5 is easy to set, (2 clicks to the right of the slider), the lazy user wins. :slight_smile:


Done.


See my next post.


I’m glad they agree with me :smiley:
The most obvious case is for a fade-out where we have the well known phrase “exponential decay”.
Do we need to check the Audacity documentation (particularly in relation to the Envelope tool).


So as to avoid making this post too long I’ll reply to the points about “presets” separately.

Supplementary information about “S” shaped fades:

There is a family of “S” shaped fades. A raised cosine curve is a common and easily implemented version. Other members of the family include Gaussian, and various window functions such as Blackman, Kaiser, … For the purposes of fading music they all sound quite similar. An “S” or “bell” shaped fade starts gradually, then becomes steeper, then becomes more gradual.

“S” curve fades are very commonly used. They work well for “musical fade outs”, cross-fades, fading smoothly from one level to another, “windowing”, panning …

When a sound engineer fades in a new channel into an existing mix, they will often move the fader at a varying rate to produce an “S” shaped fade. Similarly when dropping the channel out again. The overall effect is to produce a “smooth” transition.

For very short fades (just a few cycles) a sine curve fade produces lower levels of distortion than linear or logarithmic fades. This, along with unity gain crossfading, make raised cosine curves a common choice for windowing functions and for “patching” short sections of damaged audio.

When used in a cross-fade, compared with linear fades, the first “song” is dominant for for longer then a more rapid transition to the next song becoming dominant. Like linear fades the “S” curve fade produces an equal gain crossfade so there can be a noticeable dip in the loudness if there is little correlation between the waveforms. This “dip” is why other shapes tend to be more popular when crossfading a full mix, but “S” shape fades remain popular for crossfading single tracks where “phase cancellation” is unlikely to be a problem.

Exaggerating the curvature by reducing the mid-fade level and overlapping the tracks a little more can be useful when cross-fading songs that have “beat match” problems (strongly rhythmic but different tempos). In some cases this can be more effective than using a shorter “simple” curve because it gives a hint of the second song (at a low level) before the cross-fade becomes really noticeable. Of course, when produced manually, the fade out and fade in of a crossfade need not be symmetrical - one curve type could be used for the fade out and a different curve type used for the fade in. Getting such asymmetrical crossfades to sound right can be fiddly so they are generally only used for artistic effect.

The “Pro Fade Out” is based on an “S” curve fade shape, but has a frequency dependent element such that the mid-fade level is progressively lower with higher frequencies. (see Feature Request: “Fade out according to freqency spectrum: fade bass more slowly like professional fader hardware to provide smooth fade and maintain depth right to the end”.)

Version 23b just changes the “Fade Taper” to “Fade type” and “Override Level Controls” to “Use Preset or Controls”.
adjustable-fade-23b.ny (1.95 KB)

I’ve modified the “Mid-fade” slider to a new non-linear scale. It still has the same range of fade curves as version 23, but the scale is now shown as +/- 1.
These are the “Fade In” curves that it produces (slider values in steps of 0.2 from -1.0 to +1.0)
Simple-curves.png
Sine-curves.png

I agree that a few extra presets would be nice, but I’m not sure that this is the best way to accomplish it.
Looking at what controls would need to be set for various tasks:

If a user wants to create a fade-in from silence with a “slightly curved” fade shape (anything that is not a preset).

Version 23. Starting from the default settings:

  • Adjust Mid-fade Cut / Boost.

With the suggested interface:

  • Select “Use Controls”
  • Adjust Mid-fade Cut / Boost.
  • Set “Initial Gain” to -96

To then apply a fade out using the same curve:
Version 23:

  • Select “Fade Out”

With the suggested interface:

  • Set “Initial Gain” to 0
  • Set “Final Gain” to -96

To apply a non-preset sine curve fade in:
Version 23. Starting from the default settings:

  • Select “Sine”
  • Adjust Mid-fade Cut / Boost.

With the suggested interface:

  • Select “Use Controls”
  • Select “Sine”
  • Adjust Mid-fade Cut / Boost.
  • Set “Initial Gain” to -96

To then apply a fade out using the same curve:
Version 23.

  • Select “Fade Out”

With the suggested interface:

  • Set “Initial Gain” to 0
  • Set “Final Gain” to -96

It’s not a lot of extra steps, but if the effect is used regularly I think that the extra steps will become quite tiresome.

A small modification to Gale’s suggestion - it’s one extra control:

Suggested controls with default settings shown:

Preset or Controls: Use Controls
Fade direction: Fade Up
Fade type: Simple (linear)
Mid-fade cut/boost: 0
High point gain (dB): 0
Low point gain (dB): -96

Preset choices:

  • Use Controls
  • Fade In (linear)
  • Fade Out (Linear)
  • Exponential In
  • Exponential Out
  • Eq. Power In
  • Eq. Power Out
  • ‘S’ Curve In
  • ‘S’ Curve Out

I’m anticipating that Gale will object to the default setting for the first control so I’ll explain the reasoning:

  • As with Gale’s suggestion, the presets will override all other controls
  • Novice users will immediately see that they need to change this setting if they want to use a preset.
  • There is no suggestion that any of the controls will have any effect on the presets (they won’t).
  • Users immediately see that to use the controls “Use Controls” must be selected.
  • With more presets, people using the presets will change the selection almost every time they use the effect.
  • People that want to “Use Controls” can leave it at the default and will then have a similar UI to version 23.
  • As user settings are not remembered from one session to the next, any other setting would mean that experienced users would need to reset this control each session just to “not use” the presets.
  • To select a preset Fade In or Fade Out, only one control is required.

Of course, if there is a “Fade Direction” control (which I think is useful) then it is not really necessary to specify which of the gain controls is “high” and which is “low”. Neither is it necessary to specify which is the initial gain level and which is the final gain level. If it is fading “up” then the final gain level must be greater than the initial fade level. Similarly if it is fading down then the final gain level must be lower than the initial.

This gives us some flexibility with the naming of these controls - it could be “Initial / Final Gain” or “Maximum / Minimum Gain” or “Gain-0 /Gain-1” or just two “Gain” sliders.

If we do specify which gain control is which end, or which gain control is higher, what do we do if the user puts them the wrong way round? (If they put a max value less than a min value, or an initial gain greater than a final gain for a “fade down”? We could throw an error in such cases, or we could easily “correct” the error by putting them the right way round.

It seems a bit petty to throw an error message for something that can be so easily figured out by the plug-in, but on the other hand it is potentially confusing if they are entered the wrong way round and there is no error message.

The gain levels could be called something like:
Start or End gain (dB):
Gain at the other end (dB):
(rather clumsy - is there better wording?)

If we have “Equal Power” fade in and out as presets then I’m not really concerned that +0.5 is less easy to select.

I’ve changed my mind about this.
“Mid-Fade Cut/Boost” can work with logarithmic and exponential fades. I’ll try it out in the next version.

Does this merely mean that those not using presets could have more choice of Fade Types?

Or, that you want a model where all dropdown choices permit access to all the sliders, without one-click presets (so more like the version prior to “#23”)?

The rest of this was written assuming users of an expanded set of one-click presets have no access to the other controls.

Most of the extra steps this entails come from having the gain controls specify “Initial” and “final”. If there are a sufficient range of presets (8 or 10 being sufficient IMO) then I think it’s acceptable that the two gain sliders are either specified as “High” and “Low” or not specified (if we retain the “Fade Direction” control).

Retaining “Fade Direction” saves some extra steps in some cases. It might initially be a little confusing to those using presets, causing them to wonder if they really need to set this as well, but I don’t object to it. I still think it should be called Fade In or Out, not Up or Down, even if we call the gain sliders high or low. Otherwise, two identical things are labelled differently.

Labelling of gain sliders
If we specify which gain slider is which and the user enters them the wrong way round, I think just let the plug-in “correct” it.

If we don’t specify which slider is which, it might make more problems than it’s worth trying to give the sliders an understandable label. I think it would be least confusing to use “High/Low” for an unspecified slider, but I can’t think of anything better than

High or Low Gain (dB)
Gain to complete fade (dB)

at the moment.

Presets

I am still not convinced the “Use Presets or Controls” control should default to “Use Controls”. A default is usually the most common case, not the least common. If the vast majority want a “quick fade”, then the proportion of those that actually want the default preset (Fade In as currently suggested) will be heavily penalised, particularly if they only use it once in a session as part of a workflow. In any case, should a default preset be fade out, if fade outs are more common?

I agree there is a (very slight) downside that if “Use Controls” is not default, it may not be obvious to novices that the presets are presets. If this is deemed serious, I think labelling of the control would solve it, e.g.

Use Fade Preset ornUse Controls below"



;control preset "Use Preset [PR] or Controls" choice "Use Controls,PR:Fade In (Linear),PR:Fade Out (Linear),Use Controls" 1

“Use Controls” could still be top of the list as in the above example, to aid discovery.

For the actual presets, you suggest

  • Fade In (linear)
  • Fade Out (Linear)
  • Exponential In
  • Exponential Out
  • Eq. Power In
  • Eq. Power Out
  • ‘S’ Curve In
  • ‘S’ Curve Out

Are you sure we don’t need a pair of log presets? I think including presets that are most useful is what matters, but if one or two log presets are useful, we should consider them even if they are “easy to select” with Mid Fade Cut/Boost.

It may be disconcerting if people know that Envelope Tool produces “log fades” and are looking for an easy log preset, but we don’t have them (called as such). I would think yes, if we include any explicitly named “exponential” presets we may have to say something in the Manual about Envelope Tool and exponential fades.

Mid-Fade slider
With your new -1/+1 slider, what is the EQ power setting?


Gale

The log/exp code is not yet complete, so my comment was more of an update on progress and a correction to something that I wrote previously rather than an announcement.

You wanted a “logarithmic” fade, by which I assume you meant what Soundtrack Pro call an “Exponential Fade” as in the Envelope Tool. If we are to have such a fade as a preset (which I think is a good idea if we are to have more presets), then I think it is better to have a proper one rather than the “Simple” curve approximation.

While writing the code, it occurred to me how it would be possible to make it adjustable, which would then make it possible to create logarithmic and exponential fades from the same code. Just because the feature is in the code does not mean that we have to use it, but it does mean that if we want it, either now or at a later date, then the code is in place and is just a matter of enabling it or commenting it out. So yes, those not using presets could have more choices though I don’t know how worthwhile that will be until I’ve tried it. More importantly now is that it provides the code for a preset which you specifically asked for.

If we are to have a logarithmic and/or exponential fade, we really need to decide what we are going to call them. I’m in favour of going with Soundtrack Pro as I think that is technically correct and I think that most people have an idea of what an “exponential decay” is (and/or “exponential growth”).


I’ve used the terms “Fade In” and “Fade Out” when referring to “fading in from silence” and “fading out to silence”.
I’ve use the terms “Fade Up” and “Fade Down” when referring to “fading from one level up to a higher level” and “Fading from one level down to a lower level”. Fading down from say unity gain to -3 dB is not really “fading out”, it’s just “gone down a bit”.


I thought the same. In version 24 (not complete yet) it is “High point gain” and “Low point gain”. I’ll leave it like that for now and it can be updated if anyone thinks of something better.


It is very unlikely that any of the users will exclusively use one preset - at the very least I’d expect both “In” and “Out” presets to be used. My comment about “fade outs” being more common than “fade ins” was specifically about fading out songs / pieces of music, but there are many other uses of fades. Over all fade uses, fade ins are probably just as common as fade outs.

I agree that if we use a preset as the default, the obvious choice is “Linear Fade In” or “Linear Fade Out”, but these are likely to be the two least used options as Audacity already has a faster, more convenient version of these. We can only choose one item as the default and there is a very high probability that it will not be the one that a user wants. Even if we pick the right “shape” it is likely to be in the wrong direction half the time.

On the other hand, anyone using the main features of this effect (the controls) may never need to change this setting. Having “Use Controls” as the default is no hindrance for preset users because much of the time they will need to change it anyway, but it is a positive advantage to everyone else. Choosing one of the presets as a default is little or no advantage to preset users but a disadvantage to everyone else.

Those that actually want the default preset are not penalised in the slightest by having “Use Control” as the default. They are being helped because displaying “Use Controls” the first time that the effect is used reinforces the message “that the controls only work when “enabled” and not for presets”.
Not having “Use Controls” as the default does penalise those that want to use the controls (and arguably all those that want to use a different preset).


That depends on what you mean by “log”. By “Exponential” I meant as in exponential growth/decay (like the Envelope tool).


This effect does not have EQ. I was referring to “Pro Fade Out”, which has a first order Butterworth filter with a corner frequency that slides down from half the sample rate to 100 Hz.

Which is why we will still need to have “Pro Fade Out” in addition to this tweakable fade (as it does “stuff” that the tweakable fade doesn’t - and no other fade that we currently have does either).

I would also still vote for adding Steve’s “Cross-Fade-Classic” too -just because it is so darn simple and effective to use with minimal fuss.

Peter.

A little side remark.
It is maybe only a possibility for the distant future but nevertheless worth a short reflection.

The idea is the following:
Your plug-in doesn’t apply the fades, instead it serves as a setup or editor for the fades for a session. This means:
Under effects there will be the following PLUG-INS :
Fade In
Fade Out
Fade Setup
Cross Fade
In your plug-in the user sets the preferences for the other 3 effects. In this way, You can omit the direction control and the doubled sets of presets (Fade in linear, Fade out linear etc.), because fade out will be the inverse of fade in and crossfade will alternate between successive tracks. The user could thus setup his favorite fade type and afterwards apply the fades with one click or keystroke only, without changing the direction inbetween. If the user calls a fade effect for the first time, a warning could be given out, something like:
“fade type is not yet set. Call ‘Fade Setup’ to specify one or call the effect again (Ctrl-R) to apply the default linear fade effect.”
The settings of the fade setup would be stored in either scratch, a text file in the plug-ins themselves or the preference file. It depends on how long the settings should be stored (one session or over several ones). If you find that a bad idea, just ignore this post…

What an interesting idea Robert. I agree that it is probably some way off in the future, but a very interesting idea.

+1

Yup that was an interesting -off-the-wall way of looking at the problem; like it.

A bit more progress on the log/exponential fades.

I need to do more testing, but at the moment I think that I’ll leave this just as a preset in this plug-in. I may put it into version 24 for a second opinion but as a variable curve I don’t think that it offers much that is sufficiently different from what is already available.

This is, however, extremely good for cross-fading because the curve shape is a little more “pointed” than other curves. I guess it’s not really surprising that curves based on logarithms are good for crossfades. I can definitely use this bit of code in a future cross-fade effect.

I’ve copied this post to a new topic so that it doesn’t get lost: Customising Fade In and Fade Out

The main feature requested on the wiki is:

Fade In/Fade Out:

  • New controls for start and end amplitude - quick linear fade from say 0.8 to 0.2, much simpler and quicker than the Envelope Tool (and VI-accessible)

so I think this feature should be central to the plug-in, as in version 23.

Generally I like presets in plug-ins, but they can become problematic in Nyquist plug-ins as the interface does not support either the controls reacting to the preset, or greying out of disabled controls.

The purpose of presets in any program is to provide convenient access to commonly used settings.
I think that we can go back to a layout similar to version 23 (which looks like the favourite so far) if we add logarithmic and exponential fades.

Using the “Soundtrack Pro” terminology, the logarithmic fade could be configured to provide an “Equal Power” curve when Mid-Fade level is zero.
This then provides the following “preset” shapes when Mid-fade is at the default (zero):

  • Linear
  • “S” curve
  • Logarithmic (Eq Power)
  • Exponential

Fade in and fade out versions of each preset could be selected by choosing “Fade In” or “Fade Out”.

I think this would provide a sufficient number of presets without having a separate “non-adjustable preset” selection.