recording vinyl...too loud

Audacity Help Forum Windows
1

Hello,

I am digitizing my vinyl using the ART USB Phono Plus computer interface. The program that came with the unit does not work and the manufacture said to use Audacity. (In Audacity) when I import the audio into my computer, I have to set the Input Volume slider practically all the way to 0, or 0.1. The ART does have an output volume control from (-10dB to + 10dB) and an input control (phono and line-level). Obviously when I set it to line-level the output volume is way too low. Shouldn’t I have more control of the input volume?

I am using Windows 7 Ultimate, and Audacity 2.0.3

2

When you turn the gain on the ART to minimum, it’s still too loud? Does the clip LED come on? If the clipping LED isn’t coming on, it shouldn’t be too loud. The ART is sending-out digital data and if Windows isn’t monkeying with the data, Audacity should be able to capture the “clean” data.

Try right-clicking the Windows speaker/volume icon, and then click Recording Devices. Click on the USB device and volume and other settings that might affect the sound.

You are connected to the computer via USB, right? No other connections between the ART and the computer?

If the ART is clipping at minimum gain, you’ve to too much output from your turntable and we’ll have to figure-out why.

3

When I turn the gain on the ART all the way to minimum it’s not too loud, but then the overall sound quality is weak. I want to have the turntable output as hot as I can w/o clipping (the red led coming on, on the ART).

Yes, I connect the ART to my computer via USB and not rca cables. I am running an external soundcard (Focusrite 18i6 via USB). I had to disable the onboard soundcard when I installed the Focusrite. The two cards don’t play nice together. The ART is only usb 1.0, and not 2.0.

One thing that is strange is: I monitor the output of the turntable from the headphone jack on the ART, so that is BEFORE the signal reaches the computer. Once the ART is connected to the computer, if I unplug the usb cable, I lose sound in the headphones. Yet, if I don’t connect, then I always have audio from the ART.

I have two turntables and this issue happens on both.

At the moment, I’m not at home so I can’t try the right-clicking on the Windows volume icon. Maybe you’re on to something here DVDdoug. Maybe one of the settings to set too high and that’s why I have to have the Input Vol at a bare min. Will try when I get home tonite. Thank you!

4

Art suggest configuring the device with Speech Recognition but I don’t know anyone who has said that solves the problem. Please let us know if it works for you.


Gale

5

I think this means the ART is getting the signal from your computer and not from the phono input. Could it be the Focusrite control panel is routing something to it? I doubt that, it could also be a Windows setting.

6

How would that be, when clashradio has said that if he does not connect the USB cable to the computer, the headphones always have sound?

I think you would have to ask Art about that behaviour.


Gale

7

When I turn the gain on the ART all the way to minimum it’s not too loud, but then the overall sound quality is weak.

OK. I think it’s fine. You can boost the volume after recording with the Amplify effect.

Audacity pre-scans your file and Amplify will default to whatever gain is needed for 0dB maximized peaks. The default gain also (indirectly) tells you what the current peak is. i.e. If Amplify defaults to +6dB, your current peak is -6dB.

If Amplify defaults to 0dB (no gain change) after recording (before any processing) the file is probably clipped since it’s unlikely that you hit exactly 0dB without “trying” to go over.

The exception would be a loud click or pop that happens to be the loudest thing on recording. It’s not a problem if the loud click clips, but if the loudest thing, the click will determine the default for the Amplify effect.

I want to have the turntable output as hot as I can w/o clipping (the red led coming on, on the ART).

That’s not necessary.* The important thing is that you NEVER clip! Nothing bad happens when you get near clipping and nothing bad happens if you are a few dB below clipping. I’d shoot for peaks between -3 and -6dB. And realistically, -9 to -12dB is probably OK. Pros record at 24-bits and with levels around -12 to -18dB (with high-quality equipment).

Digitized vinyl generally won’t be as “loud” as a modern digital recording. Most older records weren’t as dynamically compressed as modern [u]loudness war[/u] CDs and MP3s.

And, the vinyl production/playback process introduces some all-pass filtering that results in phase shifts. It’s complicated, but a digitized vinyl copy will not be as loud as the “original” digital copy, even though they both are normalized for 0dB peaks.

One thing that is strange is: I monitor the output of the turntable from the headphone jack on the ART, so that is BEFORE the signal reaches the computer. Once the ART is connected to the computer, if I unplug the usb cable, I lose sound in the headphones. Yet, if I don’t connect, then I always have audio from the ART.

I assume you have an ART USB Phono Plus? Are you powering it from USB or from an external power supply?

There’s also a switch to monitor the preamp, the computer, or both.






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  • If you’re old like me and you remember analog tape, the goal was to record hot to overcome tape noise. With digital there’s no tape noise. There is quantization noise, but at 16-bits it’s about 40dB below where the tape noise would be, way below the vinyl surface noise (and preamp hum/hiss) and inaudible under any “normal” circumstances.

Also tape doesn’t hard-clip like an analog-to-digital converter, so it was common to allow the levels to go “into the red” occasionally.

8

Ok, here’s what I found so far:

The reason why I lose sound at the headphone jack on the the ART when I unplug the usb is: the ART gets its power from the computer via usb. I was having issues when running the ART from the wall power supply and using the usb Focsrite sound card. And since I can’t disconnect the soundcard, I had to get the power source from the computer. Sorry, I forgot about that problem. My old boss used to say “I’ve forgotten more than you’ll know”

Next I right-clicked on the Windows Sound icon:
When I click on the Recording devices line and when I plug in the usb (which connects the ART to the system) the Microphone icon appears. Even though the Line In Scarlett 18ig usb is the default device.

When I click on the Playback devices line and when I plug in the usb, the Speakers 2-usb audio codec icon appears yet the Line Out Scarlett is the default.

In the Sound/Recording tab, when the vinyl is playing, only the Microphone icon has the green led’s registering even though the input default is “Line In Scarlett”. Shouldn’t the Line In VU meters be registering?

In Audacity, the setting are:
Audio Host: MME
Output Device: Line Out Scarlett 18i6 usb
Input Device: Line In Scarlett
Input Channels: 2 stereo input channels

Now that I think about it, should the Input Device in Audacity NOT be set to Line In Scarlett (Focsrite)? since the sound from the ART does not go directly into the sound card. So that makes me ask…how does Audacity get the signal from the ART? the on-board sound card is disabled, and when you plug in a usb device such as the ART, wouldn’t the on board card do the processing?

9

So that makes me ask…how does Audacity get the signal from the ART? the on-board sound card is disabled, and when you plug in a usb device such as the ART, wouldn’t the on board card do the processing?

In Audacity you can select your input device, and if you have desktop computer with mic inputs and line inputs, you can select mic or line after you’ve selected the device.

When you plug-in a USB audio device, Windows may default to that “new” device, and the revert to the previous default when you unplug it.

Likewise, you can send the output to one device or the other, just as you can choose a printer if you have more than one printer attached.

The other devices are not disabled, Audacity is just not 'listening" to them.

10

Well, thanks to DVDdoug I was able to lower the input volume by adjusting it via Windows/Sound. Although I have to use the Microphone input to record, and not the Line In Focusrite sound card option. Little confused as to why this is?

I know there’s been a big debate on what quantization to use when recording vinyl, but with the Focusrite I could record up to 18 channel 24b/96k where as the Microphone input the best is 2 channel 16/48

11

FWIW:

If you use the Focusrite for 18 channels, the highest sample rate it will support is 48 kHz. You can go higher, but with fewer channels. And that’s true for all interfaces with ADAT extension. ADAT is 8 channels at 48, 4 channels at 96 kHz and some even do 2 channels at 192 kHz.

And the ART only supports 16 bit, 48 kHz, which is plenty for vinyl digitalization. 24 bit would be better if you need to process the recordings heavily. But for just removing typical vinyl noise, 16 bit is fine.

12

You mean you reduced the ART input level? I don’t know why you feel you want to record from Focusrite instead of from ART “Microphone”, unless it was the only way to tame the input level.

Unless you are using digital to send audio from ART to Focusrite, you are adding an un-necessary digital to analogue conversion step. Also you are not improving the audio by upconverting to higher sample rates in Focusrite, just making it take more disk space when recorded and making it more prone to dropouts.


Gale