Low Volume when recording with AT2020 USB

Hi there,

I am using Audacity for Windows 7 on my laptop.
I have just recently switched from my CAD condenser mic to AT2020 USB mic. When using CAD, I can get a normal recording volume (loud enough for whole part of song). But when using AT2020 to record, the volume is too low (the wave in audacity shows a very thin shape, with some steep slope when I strum or rasgueado).

AT2020 comes with a port to plug a monitoring headphone. When I listen from that headphone, the sound and volume is good, close to what I hear directly.

I have tried to maximize the microphone volume from control panel, I have also maxed out the input volume in audacity, but both do not help much. Monitoring headphone sounds good, but unplug my headphone and playback from audacity still has very low volume.

Using ‘effect’ → ‘amplify’ will get me louder volume but at the same time I hear buzzing sound.

And if I compare the wave shape, using AT2020 gives me more of those steep slope. The volume distribution when fingerpicking and strumming is so different even though I played normally.

I am recording acoustic guitar w/o pickup and my mic is around 30cm away.
I am very new to recording, is there any settings I missed out, or maybe my mic placement is not right?

Any help and suggestions appreciated :slight_smile:
Thank you guys!

How were you using the CAD microphone? You may have gone the wrong way. USB microphones are a poor, restricted shortcut for people that don’t have a mixer and/or can’t support a classic microphone. The 48volt phantom power and mixer is far and away the better sound chain. Koz

@Koz
Thank you for the information.
My CAD mic is also a USB type, plug and play. I recorded with the same method and distance. Sound quality wise, AT2020 is better, but it has low volume and sharp spikes on the wave, so it is hard for me to ‘amplify’.

Welcome to live recording.

The tiny spikes (usually) are the clarity you get with the new microphone. Those represent the tiny sparkles and crystal sharp sounds missing from the other microphone. They take up room. You can “dull down” your performance by filtering them lower…

Without saying so, you are probably comparing your live work with very highly produced and processed commercial work. The difference is commercial work is produced and very highly processed. So we need to know what you’re doing and where you’re going.

“This is a sample of my work and I want it to sound like Chet Atkins in this YouTube clip…”

Koz

Another point. Because USB microphones jam everything into one package with no knobs, it pays well for them to make the settings as conservative as possible. This usually means they record low since slightly quiet can usually be fixed, but overload and clipping is fatal. Everybody makes different assumptions.

Koz

Thanks for the quick replies, Koz!
Here is a sample file I recorded. No editing yet, low volume and I had to set my laptop speaker to max to hear properly
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=A50A8E80095207C!107

It is supposed to be the intro of this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpLVL7X4gOE

Any methods I can do to increase the volume?

I can’t open your AUP file because we don’t have the associated sound/data files. Can you give us a WAV or MP3?

Sorry if this is obvious, but the AT2020 is a side-address directional microphone. Make sure you are recording from the front side, not the end or back-side. (You didn’t say which CAD mic you were using. It may be similar.)

Different mics have different sensitivity. As Koz says, there is no volume/gain control on this mic. There is a trade-off between gain and maximum signal level. You can probably stick the in front of a guitar amplifier and hit about 0dB. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if you are getting -20db or less with an acoustic guitar. (0 dBFS is the maximum digital level from the ADC, and it might correspond to an acoustic loudness of 100 dBSPL or more depending on the mic sensitivity and preamp gain, etc.)

What CAD mic are you using? Maybe it’s a better choice for this application.

I am recording acoustic guitar w/o pickup and my mic is around 30cm away.
I am very new to recording, is there any settings I missed out, or maybe my mic placement is not right?

The distance seems about right. Probably the most common setup is to aim the mic at the soundhole-end of the fretboard. You’ll have to experiment for the best results, but you don’t normally aim the mic directly at the soundhole.

Using ‘effect’ → ‘amplify’ will get me louder volume but at the same time I hear buzzing sound.

The noise is on the analog side. There will be acoustic room noise and preamplifier noise (from the preamp inside the mic). You may be able to lower the acoustic noise, but there is nothing you can do about the preamp noise.

If you can increase the signal, you’ll get a better signal-to-noise ratio. The only way to do that is by playing louder, or by the mic closer to the guitar. But, both of those things will affect the character of the sound and may not be desirable.

The fact is, solo acoustic instruments (and solo vocals) are darn hard to record!!! The more “sound” you’ve got, the more you mask (drown-out) the noise. Professionals still record in soundproof studios with good low-noise equipment…

And if I compare the wave shape, using AT2020 gives me more of those steep slope. The volume distribution when fingerpicking and strumming is so different even though I played normally.

My CAD mic is also a USB type, plug and play. I recorded with the same method and distance. Sound quality wise, AT2020 is better, but it has low volume and sharp spikes on the wave, so it is hard for me to ‘amplify’.

Microphones are linear (until something clips/overloads/distorts). i.e. If you increase the quiet sounds by 10dB, you also increase the loud sounds by 10dB.

If the AT has better-stronger high-frequency response, the transient peaks may be higher, but otherwise the peak-to-average ratio should be about the same with either mic (unless the CAD is overloading/clipping). You can reduce the high frequencies with EQ, but then the recording will be more “dull” or “mellow”. You don’t want to do that unless it improves the overall sound.

You can change the frequency response of the CAD recording with the Equalization effect. It’s nice to have the perfect mic for every situation, but it’s easier & more economical to alter the “character” of the sound with EQ. I’m not saying you should use cheap microhones… Maybe the CAD isnt’ going to cut it… But, you don’t have to go overboard for home recording either.

Any methods I can do to increase the volume?

As you’ve found, increasing the volume will also increase the background noise (keeping the same signal-to-noise ratio). You can try some noise reduction, but if the noise is bad, the artifacts (side-effects) of noise reduction sometimes makes things worse.

Commercial recordings use LOTS of dyamic compression & limiting to booost the overall/average level without boosting/distorting the peaks. There is a Compressor effect, and an optional Hard Limiter effect. But, it will take some practice and skill and probably some more advanced effects/plug-ins to get the loudness of a commercial recording. And over-doing it will kill the dynamic expression, making everything constantly-loud and boring (like lots of current releases! :smiley: ).

And, using compression to boost the loudness will of course boost the background noise.

Ahem…honestly I don’t realize there is front and rear of the mic
Thought it is like a 360deg…so embarrassing…arrgghhhh

I’ll try again and record an mp3 version

Thank you!

Yes, it’s a directional microphone and has a front.
Never do production in MP3. It causes sound damage on its own and makes it difficult to apply filters and effects. Stick to WAV format and then make an MP3 as a very last step (if you have to) when you post the show on-line or push it over to your Personal Misic Player.

Koz

I found the ‘front’ and recorded facing my guitar neck, it is much better now.
I feel so stupid…sorry guys I have wasted your time ><

the volume is much louder compared to my previous attempts. Thanks to you guys, not a problem anymore.

this is a wav of my recording, I still get clipping at some places but I guess it can be fixed by editing
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=A50A8E80095207C!109

Thank you!

Yes, but I wouldn’t hit too many of those overloads. You can’t actually recover from clipping or overload. If you perform them too much you can destroy your show.

Onsies and twosies you can help with one of the tools. Effect > Clip Fix, or just reduce the volume very slightly and see if you can hear them.

What people normally want us to do is fix a show that’s a solid block of red overload for twenty minutes. That’s not a sound recording and can’t be fixed.

Koz

The worst problem you have right now is the background noise – and I don’t mean hiss. Is that your cement mixer running back there?

Koz

Noted, Koz
Luckily the clip only happened when I do certain attack on the guitar.
As for my recording, is that very bad? You mentioned something like a ‘mixer’ going on behind me :smiley: