The perils of troubleshooting a Tough Dog from several time zones away. I got that phrase from a decades old magazine that described repairing TV sets. Back when we had TV sets.
Do you remember why you wanted the microphone?
Did you get the cable checked at the same store that sold it to you? Did they say anything about special driver software?
Koz
“Did you get the cable checked at the same store that sold it to you? Did they say anything about special driver software?”
No, that is a long way off. They said nothing about special drivers or software, just that this was all I needed.
“Did they have the same Windows you have?”
The computer shop had the same Windows. The audio was low on the laptop speaker, but the meter looked okay, and he said it seemed fine to him. The computer did install drivers first.
“What did the instructions say? Did you get software with the cable or a way to download it? Do they suggest there is a new special control panel that allows you to control the microphone volume?”
There was no software, no mention of a control panel. Very scant info with no pictures. Instructions said to wait for Windows to install drivers. I did see a message saying drivers were installed, but I’m wondering if I should do it over because the mic wasn’t attached before I plugged it in, though I attached it right away.
What do you want me to do in Control panel to “make it worse”?
“Do you remember why you wanted the microphone?”
Yes. In fact if I get this solved soon, I won’t need to make a long trip to the station tomorrow (that is today, Friday) to record my voice for my upcoming show, which will be in a big snow storm, so I’m prerecording. But I need to edit and add music at home, so I’d have a second trip to deliver the CDs before snow starts Saturday night. We may be well snowed in Sunday to Wednesday (Maine)–or not, the forecast keeps changing.
I’m wondering if I should do it over because the mic wasn’t attached before I plugged it in, though I attached it right away.
Not necessary. The Windows configuration has only to do with the digital USB portion of the cable, not the analog microphone. I’d be surprised if you could do it a second time. Once Windows drivers are installed they tend to stick.
What do you want me to do in Control panel to “make it worse”?
Make your voice even quieter than it already is. This is bubbling up to be a very important point. Every time I bring this up you move sideways instead of directly addressing it. The Windows 7 machine I worked with had a volume control for each of its sound connections and in the case of the microphones or inputs, a little volume meter which would flash in time to my voice (or other sound). You should find that volume control and exercise it; run it up and down and see if it acts as we expect it to. Make your voice lower in volume. We are not “helping” your performance. We are making sure the controls work.
I know Win7 had its own version of control panels where nobody could find anything, but it had the ability to revert to the “classic” WinXP control panels. Do you know what you have and/or can you locate the slider volume control associated with your microphone?
You can leave Audacity closed for all these exercises. Audacity gets its sound from Windows. If Windows can’t manage the sound, that’s the end of the story.
Koz
We may need to wait for a Windows elf. I never got the Win7 control panels to reliably do what I wanted.
Koz
I moved the record level up and down as I recorded, and the playback responded accordingly. Both he voice and hum rise and fall.
“Every time I bring this up you move sideways instead of directly addressing it.”
Sometimes I don’t understand what you mean.
Would you expect a preamp to correct the hum?
Is there another way to connect the mic?
I’ve not been following this topic closely, but as I wrote several pages back (low volume and hum using mic - #2 by steve) the SM58 should be used with a proper XLR lead into an XLR socket.
How it works is that the microphone uses all three connectors of the XLR plug. One pin is earthed and is used to shield the signal from electrical interference. The other two (known as “hot” and “cold”) are twisted around each other and work as a push/pull arrangement for the microphone signal. This is called a “balanced” system, and it is designed to provide excellent immunity from electrical interference. For it to work properly it must be plugged into a balanced input. The microphone inputs of standard computer sound cards are not balanced, so cannot provide the benefits of balanced connections.
More information about balanced signals here: Balanced audio - Wikipedia
Steve: I took your previous posts to mean that the Shure is not ideal, but might be okay with a preamp. So I asked a music store to order the one you suggested. They said they’d look into it, but they are slow. In the mean time, others suggested other issues, so I’ve been following those. As you must see, I know about nothing.
Are you saying the Shure is hopeless because the computer won’t handle it, or would the preamp correct the hum? Without the hum, I could amplify the recording in Audacity.
Is there a suitable sound card I could get? Without that, do you think there no way to connect the mic effectively?
" “XLR to USB cables” generally don’t provide any amplification so are not suitable for voice recording."
The cable the music store sold me doesn’t have the control unit shown in the pictures of the product. I still have not determined whether it is missing or just a different version. I have been unable to find any version online without the control unit. But if I were to get the one with the control, would that provide the amplification I need? Assuming there’s a way to remove the hum.
As I’ve said, I don’t expect perfection. The station I’m at is not hi-fi. But the hum and the very low volume won’t be acceptable.
You should not get hum from a Shure SM58 when plugged into a balanced XLR input unless there is something very wrong with your house electrics. Shure SM58s have been widely used as stage microphones for decades, and “on stage” is a very hostile environment for microphone signals due to the abundance of high power lighting dimmers.
As someone said earlier on, there is nothing wrong with an SM58, though it may not be an obvious choice for podcast recording. You would probably be able to get a “crisper” sound with more sense of “clarity” and “openness” with a sensitive condenser mic, such as the Rode NT1, but that mic is about double the price of an SM58 and you would still need a mic pre-amp (in fact, a true condenser mic such as the Rode NT1 will not work at all without a proper XLR input capable of providing phantom power. “Dynamic” mics such as the SM58 do not require phantom power). The other advantage of an SM58 is that they are extremely robust and reliable - One of the SM58s in my collection is well over 20 years old and still going strong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shure_SM58
I’m out of ideas… I don’t know what’s going on…
Do you have access to another computer you can try? Since you’ve tested the mic and you’ve tested the Hosa, I’m still thinking it’s computer configuration problem of some kind…
ALL good analog microphones are low-impedance balanced with XLR connectors. Your SM58 should be fine with the Hosa XLR interface, or with some other USB interface that has XLR mic inputs.
Cheap “computer mics” and older “tape recorder mics” are high-impedance unbalanced. But, the microphone input on a regular soundcard or laptop is worthless for high-quality recording because it does not interface properly with any good stage/studio mic. (And the preamp built into a soundcard or laptop is usually low-quality.)
An analog preamp would not work with the Hosa interface. You’d have to connect the preamp’s output to your soundcard’s line-input. That might solve the problem, but I have no idea what the root of the problem is.
You can test the line-input on your soundcard by connecting something and recording it (a CD player, DVD player, TV, etc.). If that works, a (working) preamp and (working) microphone should also work. (A small mixer would work too and it’s easier to find a small inexpensive mixer than to find an inexpensive stand-alone preamp.)
A USB interface with gain controls would allow you to adjust the levels. A mixer with a USB output would also allow you to adjust the gain. But again, I don’t know if that will solve the problems.
This seems like an analog problem. Noise is “always” an analog problem. Low signal is almost always an analog problem. The only place you have analog is the microphone and the input-side of the Hosa. But, you’ve tested the mic and you’ve tested the Hosa, so I have no idea what’s going on…
or would the preamp correct the hum? Without the hum, I could amplify the recording in Audacity.
We don’t know where the hum is coming from. If the noise get’s amplified along with the signal, it’s not going to help. If you can boost the signal before the hum comes-in, you’ll get a better signal-to-noise ratio.
Since the hum is bad, it’s unlikely that Audacity (or any other software) can remove it without damaging the signal. Noise reduction works best when you have a constant low-level backgroiund noise. (Pros still record in soundproof studios with very good equipment because there are limits to what software can do.)
I moved the record level up and down as I recorded, and the playback responded accordingly. Both he voice and hum rise and fall.
It appears to be working properly. So that puts us back in the idea that the USB connection in your computer somehow is broken — that it does not support your USB microphone cable.
Hosa Technology, TrackLink Microphone to USB Interface, XLR3F to USB Type A
(from the beginning of the thread)
There is a microphone preamplifier inside your USB cable. That’s how they work. It’s Mic-Pre, audio amplifier, digitizer and USB management, all in one cable. That’s what’s crazy about this. Your hardware list should have worked, and in fact it does appear to work, as long as you don’t connect it to your computer.
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I attached the specifications of your USB cable. What they claim is impossible. They say this cable may be used either before or after a separate Microphone Preamplifier. Nobody can do that. The microphone signal and the signal after a preamplifier can be as much as 1000 times different in volume. They’re not directly compatible with each other like they suggest in the document.
Do you sense us walking in circles? If that’s true, how did they get it to work in the store?
Changing the preamplifier may be a good way out. Get one that doesn’t promise impossibilities and see what happens. That can be an adventure. Each has advantages and disadvantages. As we go.
Koz
I do get confused. Which is true: The Shure is a great mic, but it won’t work for me. Or: With the right preamp, or the right sound card, or something else, it should work okay.
Is there any way to test out what is causing the hum? And what may be wrong with my USB ports?
I’m also hearing in some of the posts that there are problems with using a USB mic. I’d better understand that before I scrap the Shure. I’m getting the impression that the store that sold me the mic and cable will only allow trade-ins.
What about the sound card? Should I get a different one?
I’m out of ideas… I don’t know what’s going on…
See? You have the Alice in Wonderland of sound problems.
“six impossible things before breakfast”
Just to get things off Top Dead Center. People have found the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 external soundcard to be valuable.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett2i2
I don’t think we ever had complaints about sound quality from this thing although it can be a little finicky to get it to work. For one thing, it insists on recording in stereo and the microphone will only show up on Left or Right, not both. That’s three key clicks to fix in Audacity.
It will manage your SM58 very nicely as well as any other XLR microphone including ones that need 48volt phantom power (don’t worry about that).
One of two things will happen. It will work fine and you go on your way, or it fails to work, and clearly you need to fix your computer.
Koz
Yes, we have had complaints about the Scarlett. Just about all of them have to do with the stereo/mono thing I talked about and trying to use it on complex jobs for which it was not designed.
Koz
Thanks. But before I go buying the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, oughtn’t I try to determine whether there is something wrong with my computer, or the USB ports? How might I do that? I’d rather not get it and still have the problem.
The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is an external sound card? So I keep my other sound card and it still has its uses?
“it insists on recording in stereo and the microphone will only show up on Left or Right, not both. That’s three key clicks to fix in Audacity.”
Does this mean it’s not a problem of concern for what I want, which is to record voice (which of course is mono, but the recording will go out stereo).
And does this take the place of (and is it better than) the ART USB Dual Pre ?
What about this XLR-USB cable? Do I need or want it? ($50 worth)
There certainly are other options.
Both Steve and I do it with a dedicated sound mixer and USB adapter. Very highly recommended.
That’s my Peavey PV6 mixer on the right. That mixer is $105 and the adapter is $30. You can also get the mixer with USB built-in. Behringer makes some very nice mixers (one in particular is not recommended. Check here first).
ART equipment tends to be very highly regarded on the forum. I don’t own any stand-alone microphone digitizers except the Shure X2U. I would not buy another one. It has weak volume which is a fairly common complaint of USB microphones in general. Again, I don’t have a Scarlett or a Dual Pre. The formal but small sound mixer doesn’t have weak volume problems.
I keep my other sound card and it still has its uses?
I don’t see how. They promise electrical impossibilities in their documentation.
not a problem of concern for what I want
They will all produce a single sound track. Some of them do it as half of a stereo show, some of them as a mono track. Converting to what you need is simple key clicks in Audacity. Note: Audacity will convert a single voice into “two track mono.” One voice appearing on both left and right for the listener. That’s technically not “stereo” but you can do that as well. You can cause your voice to slide left and right and also create “fake” concert hall effects. That’s usually done for specific theatrical reasons. Never deliver a simple reading that way.
The dual channel systems will allow you to add a second matching microphone and do real stereo. If you want your voice to slide left, move your chair closer to the left microphone. That’s usually disorienting for the listener and to be avoided.
If your computer is broken you should fix it or get a different one. This is a forum for Audacity and associated equipment. Computer repair may be getting too far into the weeds.
Please note the Zoom H2 produces a terrific sound track without involving your computer at all. The Zoom H4 will let you plug your microphone in and record that.
Also note that when you do finally get a working voice track, you will then be in a position to address microphone physical problems, consonant popping and room echoes. So don’t promise anybody an audiobook reading so fast.
The Car Talk radio show decided to self-produce and stop paying WBUR radio station for studio time. I think that lasted two shows and it was so painful they went back to WBUR.
Koz
“It can’t be this hard.”
Ian has the longest posting on the Audacity forum. He wanted to record his voice for audiobooks in his Hollywood apartment. Bruno has the second longest. He was recording his acoustic guitar in his apartment somewhere in Portugal.
Koz
Thanks for the good info. A couple more things:
About the Scarlett 2i2 being an external sound card:
"I keep my other sound card and it still has its uses? "
“I don’t see how. They promise electrical impossibilities in their documentation.”
I don’t know what this means, not sure we’re talking about the same thing, I didn’t say what sound card I have or its documentation. My original question was whether another internal sound card would be desirable in this situation.
If I get the Scarlett 2i2, it replaces my internal sound card? Same with the ART USB Dual Pre? Because I know nothing, does anyone have an opinion based on my situation which one might be better?
No, not to get into computer repair, but based on my issue, do you think the computer’s USB is likely at fault? Not programming? It’s a money thing, I could get myself in deep between repairs and equipment if I have no clue (just as I am from going off buying equipment I didn’t understand).
No, not to get into computer repair, but based on my issue, do you think the computer’s USB is likely at fault? Not programming? It’s a money thing, I could get myself in deep between repairs and equipment if I have no clue (just as I am from going off buying equipment I didn’t understand).
At this point we can’t tell you what to do. We are all just guessing and you won’t know what the problem is until the problem is solved. That’s ALWAYS the case… You don’t know what the problem is 'till it’s solved.
I think you’ve done just about everything you can do for free, unless there’s a Windows Control Panel setting or driver update you haven’t tried.
So, you can try buying some more equipment (you’ve been given lot of suggestions*) and hope the new hardware works better, or maybe buy another “cheap” computer to see if that helps. Again, we can’t tell you what to buy. It’s your money and you are the one taking the risk of buying something that doesn’t fix the problem.
Or, take your computer (and the mic & Hosa) to a computer repair shop. I’d look for a shop that has a USB to XLR microphone interface and XLR mic on hand, so if they conclude the Hosa or Mic is the problem they can prove it with working hardware. I would assume a computer shop can diagnose the problem in an hour, and here in the U.S. that should cost you about $100 USD. (Most shops have will have a one-hour or half-hour minimum charge.) Then if you need to replace hardware, that would be an additional cost.
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I don’t know what this means
I assumed you were talking about your USB cable. “SoundCard” has taken on the identity of anything that handles sound whether it’s a formal card that fits in your desktop computer or not. That’s one reason it’s good to use a lot of English words when you’re describing a problem or condition.
If you’re talking about an actual physical card that came inside your computer (above), that one stays put and you switch between that and your new external one in software, very much like you did with your USB Microphone Cable.
If I get the Scarlett 2i2, it replaces my internal sound card?
You switch to, or pay attention to it. The available equipment or device list in Windows and Audacity gets longer. Opening the computer case is not needed.
The ART unit has its features. You can run it from an internal battery or a wall-socket power supply neatly divorcing it from any possible computer power problems.
I recommend Googling complaints and then critically analyze the results. Googling recommendations is usually a love fest written by the manufacturer. One person complaining about a problem may just be a doofus not knowing what they’re doing. The same problem by many different people is worthy of attention.
Also use the search tool at the top of the forum. Searching for Scarlett will turn up all the people shocked by the device only putting the voice on one side of a stereo (two track) show. That’s correct. That’s how this unit works.
Dragging this back to Audacity for a second. Plug the USB Sound Device in and then start Audacity. Audacity checks for new devices when it starts.
Koz
Okay, I’ll pursue the options. Thanks for taking the time with this tough issue. I’ve learned a lot. If you keep the thread open, I can come back to report what happened (fyi) or if there is any Audacity related issue involved before it is solved. Thanks for all the help.
