Thanks very much for that: the effect is certainly marked: for a default setting with no extra tweaking it’s an impressive result.
Obviously I would prefer to get the same or hopefully better by changing the circumstances of the recording, but I can see how useful that process could be
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De-verb plugins are not going to produce something which will be acceptable to ACX,
They don’t completely remove reverb & they add a lot of computery processing artefacts.
I was just surprised at the effectiveness of the process. It might distort the basic sound to a degree unacceptable to some or many, but I was under the impression that removing reverb to any standard simply could not be done.
Good point Trebor.
But I also agree with Bert. I was very surprised at what a standard plugin setting could achieve - and for my purposes, and maybe for others on the forum, the quality of something like this plugin might work for them. Although our group uses the ACX standards as a guideline, we don’t need such exacting standards for the audio we are editing - so this will likely work well for me.
I was under the impression that removing reverb to any standard simply could not be done.
…with the processing we have.
Anybody could get rid of echoes. Those are just your own voice arriving at the microphone multiple times after the initial performance, they’re having been reflected from walls, ceilings, floors, etc.
The easy tools fail because the job is to remove your voice from itself. There is only one known key. Echoes are always lower volume.
But if you “make” an echo you can combine it with the main show and then test if the overall sound reduced in volume or not. Then test for every instance of polarity, distance, type of wall, number of bounces, and orientation. Eventually, you will “build the room” and “know” what the echo signature is. Invert and subtract.
Most people don’t have that kind of digital horsepower available, or are unwilling to wait.
This is the same reason “Echo Effects” almost always sound off. They’re only using the first couple of sound bounces whereas the real thing has thousands.
This also gives me the stupid joke of listening to your bad performance and being able to tell you how big your kitchen is.
Nobody will care that your podcast has odd artifacts, particularly now that major news and productions are sending work from home. But you pay for technically and theatrically perfect audiobooks and that’s where they get you. ACX still has a failure called “overprocessing” and they won’t accept machine speech.
Koz
Koz,
Interesting on the technicality of reverb, thanks. And you echo (sorry) the point that both I and mafg1953 made: that the highest technical standards, whether attainable or not, aren’t always needed for some applications.
Incidentally, when I first worked in broadcasting we added reverb to a signal by playing the source material through a loudspeaker in a bare room, picking it up on a mic in the same room, and sending it back to the studio. Real high-end tech stuff.
So. They know what they have. Waiting for the yearly subscription.
Koz
Real high-end tech stuff.
NBC Washington had a stairwell…
Koz
I sure hope not …!!!
Mike
We (ie the BBC) did sometimes suffer from people going into the room without realising what it was; tense and atmospheric scenes could be quite enhanced by a phantom voice saying, “Oh! Oh… Sorry!” as the penny dropped, followed by hasty receeding footsteps and a door closing. I imagine a stairwell was rather more prone to the same thing.
A job further along had a 6-story building with a large, continuous stairwell on the south wall. I never got to it, but I so wanted to record some of the singers doing portions of a mass. In Latin.
Dóminus vobíscum.
Et cum spíritu tuo.
The head of one of the leading companies that do underwater photography moved into a house with a high, peaked ceiling front room. It sounded wonderful. This is me writing that down for later.
Actually recording there could be a problem because they’re not that far from the airport.
In spite of their best efforts, Los Angeles’s airport remains LAX.
Koz
Koz,
Looking for the Gregorian Chant effect that you hear when in an old cathedral/monastery?
Mike
Maybe a little more upbeat and cheerful. Say a nice Gloria.
The goal was a minute tops. I just want to see if I could do it. Even a single singer. I think one of the animators was a terrific tenor.
I have to be really careful, because as everybody knows, you can’t take the echoes out once you put them in.
Koz
Koz,
Not really a Gloria, not in Latin, not necessarily religious, and I’m thinking they take “just a few” liberties to try and sell an album, but I have their first (I think) album in my playlist. Lots of reverb and “echos” of songs from my past - so it ties to this post.
I looked at their website and they just happened to have this version of a Gloria online.
Mike
Did we lose @Bert Coules in the melee? It would be insanely handy to know if that trick worked.
Koz
Hi Koz (and everyone),
No, I’m still here. But as I posted before the musical appreciation took over, my friend won’t be able to make a new test recording until after the weekend. I’ve passed on all the advice I’ve been given - work closer, check for a second mic, eliminate reflections from the hard desk top, and the rest - and if the problem’s been eliminated I shall of course say so here. Equally, if that curious boomy reverb is still there, I hope we can can continue to discuss probable causes and hopeful cures.
I’ve been helped many times on forums akin to this one by reading how other people have been guided to the point of reporting eventual success. I know not to take advice and disappear.
until after the weekend
Oh right. You did say that.
curious boomy reverb
Most fixes are plain and ordinary but that one is not. It would be good to know about that one.
Koz
An update: my friend just sent through a couple of new tests, recorded at a fist-width from the mic. I’m not going to post either of them because they sound almost identical to the previous recording. I also asked her to scratch the windshield before speaking: nothing is audible.
Edited to add:
It was the laptop microphone that was active. Many thanks to Trebor who was the first to suggest it! This despite the fact that my friend reports the exterior mic being selected in the software: she’s using Quicktime on a Mac machine. A curious fault, if it is one.
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OK, here we go: a new test recorded on a different machine:
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Much better. I applied Audiobook Mastering tools and it passes ACX technical testing.
But. Read through the “Hold Your Breath” blue link detailed instructions for the sound test.
https://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/TestClip/Record_A_Clip.html
The first two seconds is not silence or Room Tone. I can hear shuffling, adjusting clothing, flipping papers, etc. All that is forbidden for that two seconds. Everybody gets this wrong, but it’s important because “clean” Room Tone is a part of the ACX submission standard. It’s not something you can toss off once and then not worry about it forever.
The microphone spacing is too close. I was going to call this earlier, but I missed it. The “P” in Perfectly Produced is explosive. Some of that gets suppressed in post production editing, but it shouldn’t be there in the first place.
There are two “normal” spacings. A Hawaiian Shaka without a blast filter…
… and a Power Fist with one.
Those are general guidelines, and, of course, it changes with hand size. If you’re already doing that, then another trick is oblique positioning.
I have expressive P sounds, so I use B. This might also help suppress a slight sharpness to the sound. Almost Essing, but not quite.
What else…
Is the computer in the same room? It probably shouldn’t be. I show a low pitched tone probably computer fan sound behind the performance. I can’t easily get rid of it without damaging the voice. This is where you get to play “Producer” (decision maker). I can force the presentation to pass without doing anything special, but it really shouldn’t be there.
Koz