I recently purchased some vintage Stockhausen 4-channel master tapes (.WAV), however they are included on the DVDs as 4 separate tracks that would require computer manipulation to play simultaneously. I am hoping to create a single multichannel file that can be burnt to a DVD and played by a regular DVD player (In my case a PS3) and played over a 5.1 surround system. I imagine this could be done with something like a DTS encoded file with the center channel and subwoofer muted.
You can use Audacity with the FFmpeg import/export library to make a multi-channel AC3 file. I believe you can also make a DTS file. But that won’t necessarily play on a DVD player, because you’re not making a compliant DVD.
You generally need DVD authoring software to the make the standard DVD structure and format with VOB files in a VIDEO_TS folder.* Many video editing applications such as Corel Video Studio or Cyberlink Power Director should be able to do it.
DVD players and receivers are not “required” to support DTS. A compliant DVD must have an LPCM (usually 2-channel stereo) or a Dolby AC3 file. DTS is allowed as an additional optional track. I’m not saying you HAVE to make a compliant DVD, but if you don’t some people may not be able to play it. Most consumer DVD authoring applications only allow one audio track, so Dolby AC3 is your only choice for discrete surround.
Since DVDs are audio and video, if you want to make an “audio only” DVD, the standard practice is to make a “slideshow” DVD with a menu and a still image while the audio is playing. That still-image can simply be a “picture” of text showing the artist, song title, and album information, or it can be just a “blank” black image. Or, you can do a more elaborate slide show with images of the artist, etc.
There is a special DVD-Audio format, but it never caught-on and most players can’t play it, and I don’t know of any consumer DVD-Audio authoring applications. (I think there is an open-source application.)
It can get rather complicated if you are not familiar with the software… When I did it a few years ago I had Video Studio, but it wasn’t capable of making a surround file from separate WAVs (the newer version should be able to do it now), so I used Video Studio to edit/create the video, then I used a free application called [u]wav2ac3encoder[/u] to make the Dolby AC3 file from the WAVs, and finally I used another non-free program called DVD-Lab to author the DVD, and then another application to burn the DVD!
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DVDs also have an empty AUDIO_TS folder. That’s only used for DVD-Audio discs. Regular Audio-Video DVDs have the audio & video combined (multiplexed) in VOB files in the VIDEO_TS folder. The VOB file is MPEG-2 video with one more audio tracks in LPCM, AC3, or DTS format.
We used to do a variation on that. If we would run out of space on the disk for the linear stereo track, we would not produce it at all and go right for compressed Dolby AC3 … with two tracks. Dolby supports many different numbers of tracks and there was a little box graphic where you choose what you want.
Players go straight for Dolby if they can’t find the PCM track.
Ah, thanks for the quick replies! I was worried my first post would sit around unnoticed! I’m actually hoping to put this together as a Christmas present so the quick response is very much appreciated.
The .WAV files are 24-bit 48 kHz quality, which I’m hoping to retain, and refrain from compressing as much as possible. The 1st generation PS3 I have seems to be pretty versatile when it comes to decoding. Though I currently have it connected to my receiver via an optical cable, which is not able to transmit the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master formats yet (until I get an hdmi compatible receiver) or multichannel DSD based SACDs. It does do fine with multichannel DVDs, usually DVD-Video sourced not DVD-Audio. The PS3 Wiki page lists the compatible audio formats for sending over optical TOSLINK as:
LPCM
2ch
44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88 kHz, 176.4 kHz
Dolby Digital 5.1
DTS 5.1
AAC
I’m hoping to make as high a quality copy as possible, I’m guessing DTS 5.1, any thoughts?
(I’m also quite the n00b so any explicit instructions (including setting the 5.1 to mimic 4.0 Quad setup) are much appreciated!)
My impression of DTS was that of a “fake” system. An extension of those systems briefly popular centuries ago which would produce Quad Surround Sound ® magically out of a stereo show. It always gave engineers a bad taste because it wouldn’t pass standard engineering sound tests. It was an acoustic phenomena.
Dolby, on the other hand was testable and came from a rich tradition of high-end processing in recording studios.
From my experience what your referring to sounds very similar to both Dolby Pro Logic I & II which take an initially stereo, and intended to be so, signal and kind of shuffles, I’m guessing, certain frequencies around in order to create a surround experience. Definitely not a discrete system. I’m not sure if DTS ever attempted to do anything similar. However, having purchased a few of the newer Blu-ray audio discs (and of course listened to DVD surround, which some feature DTS or Dolby) I can say that DTS is most definitely discrete and, having done a little bit of digging, usually of slightly higher fidelity than its Dolby counterpart (though there’s not much of a point in comparing the two uncompressed Dolby TrueHD to DTS-HD Master formats). (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dolby-digital-vs-dts-a-guide-to-the-strengths-of-the-formats)
The .WAV files are 24-bit 48 kHz quality, which I’m hoping to retain, and refrain from compressing as much as possible.
Both DTS and Dolby AC3 are lossy compression and if you want more than 2 channels on a DVD you’ll be using one of those lossy formats. Some of the best-sounding music I have is on 5.1 channel concert DVDs, so I’m not worried about it being lossy. When I have a DVD with a stereo LPCM track (lossless) and a 5.1 surround track, I’ll choose the lossy surround track. (The lossless Dolby and DTS formats are Blue-Ray formats.)
DTS supports higher bitrates than Dolby, but it’s hard to say if it “sounds better” even if you have both formats on the same DVD because it’s often encoded a little “hotter” (I believe the DTS standard is 4dB louder than the Dolby standard) and the increased loudness tends to give the impression of “better sound”, and there’s a possibility of it being a different surround mix. DVDs rarely use the maximum-allowable maximum bitrate in either case because the video is also lossy and depending on playing time, you may have to reduce video quality to use a higher audio bitrate, more so if there are multiple audio tracks. On a DVD with an LPCM audio track and a DTS track, the audio might eat-up half of the disc space. Plus, I never hear anything wrong with Dolby Surround.
The problem with DTS is that in order to make a standards-compliant DVD that plays on all players, it has to be a 2nd (or 3rd) soundtrack in addition to the main Dolby (AC3) or LPCM track. Most consumer DVD authoring applications only support one audio track, and most don’t support DTS… So, it’s going to be difficult to make compliant DVD with DTS.
Your DVD or Blu-Ray player might play a non-compliant DVD (if your DVD authoring application lets you make a non-compliant DVD). Or, your DVD player might simply play an AC3 or DTS audio file without the DVD file structure, but you’d have to try it (and any CD/DVD burning program can burn an AC3 or DTS file to a disc).
So I recently compiled the tracks into AC3 form with specs:
48000 khz Project rate
448 kbps encoding for 5.1 (or 224 kbps for stereo)
Channels are:
1: FL
2: FR
3: C
4: LFE
5: RL
6: RR
However since I burned a DVD with these files as a data disc my PS3 was unable to read it. It looks as if I’ll be working on these files on a MAC, anyone have any advice on a simple way to make them playable?
Great! Thanks Gale for the clarification. Now all I need is a method of burning these files to a DVD player/PS3 playable DVD! (I’ll be using my Roomate’s Mac since my PC is now out of commission)
However since I burned a DVD with these files as a data disc my PS3 was unable to read it. It looks as if I’ll be working on these files on a MAC, anyone have any advice on a simple way to make them playable?
…Now all I need is a method of burning these files to a DVD player/PS3 playable DVD!
Like I said… If you want to make a DVD with the [u]proper DVD file structure[/u], you need DVD authoring software. DVDs have VERY STRICT format & structure requirements.
But, for your computer it shouldn’t be necessary to make a proper DVD. You just need player software that can play the file. Try [u]VLC[/u]. It’s free (open source), and it can play almost any audio or format including DVDs and CDs. (It can’t play copy-protected Blu-Ray disc without some “hacking”.)
Ah, thanks. Well I’m not entirely set on making a “proper” DVD. My main goal is to play the AC3 file I’ve used audacity to create (Or any other kind of multichannel file I could create) over my 5.1 surround system. I may be getting an HDMI receiver soon, though I’m not entirely sure that multichannel audio can be sent from a computer/laptop with a standard audio card? For now, my goal is/was to create a file that my PS3 can handle, and it seems that it will have to be able to play it as a data disc.
The PS3 manual says it can play the following types of music files:
Memory Stick Audio Format (ATRAC)
MP3
-MPEG-1/2 Audio Layer3
-MP3 Surround
MP4(MPEG-4 AAC)
Wave(Linear PCM)
WMA
Does anyone know which kind of file I could use Audacity to create that would provide me the highest resolution multichannel audio? And If so what settings to use for bitrates (etc…) and channel->track locations?
I may be getting an HDMI receiver soon, though I’m not entirely sure that multichannel audio can be sent from a computer/laptop with a standard audio card?
If you use HDMI you’re not using a “standard audio card”.
With HDMI, its a question of what formats your receiver can decode.
Does anyone know which kind of file I could use Audacity to create that would provide me the highest resolution multichannel audio? And If so what settings to use for bitrates (etc…) and channel->track locations?
Of those, WAV is lossless, and there is a lossless variation of WMA. Normal MP3 is 2-channel stereo, and I’m not sure where you can find an MP3-surround encoder.
Computers can play almost anything if you have the right codec.
With HDMI and a receiver, the only way to make it “foolproof” is to use a DVD or Blu-Ray format… i.e. Stick a commercial CD, DVD, or Blu-Ray in the player and it will play through the receiver.
All the domains that supported the Fraunhofer/Thomson MP3 surround encoder have gone dark. Only dodgy download sites still offer it. AFAICR it was an evaluation version only, but since even the license is gone, I can’t check. I think MP3 surround is gone for good?
MP3 surround files play on the Mac, downmixed to stereo. I see no obvious way to extract surround sound, but I have no multichannel output ATM. Microsoft seems to have nothing about MP3 surround.
MP4 with AAC encoding supports multichannel playback. And generally, AAC is better sound quality than mp3. I think Nero can do multichannel AAC MP4 encoding. And there’s a free command line version of it:
