Conversion from 441hz to 432 hz

I wanted to convert music from original 441Hz to 432Hz but it seems the batch proceeded files didn’t change in frequency. :open_mouth:

My batch chain:

  • Sliding time scale/pitch shift (%) -2.040
    Normalize -2.040
    Export as mp3

The formula I used is:

100*(432-441)/441 = -2.040

Note. Most of my music files have a frequency of 441hz, not 440
somebody knows what I’m doing wrong to build a working chain?

What does that mean?
Music has multiple frequencies, usually ranging from below 100 Hz to over 10000 Hz. The only sound that has only a frequency of 441 Hz, is a pure sine tone (beeeep).

I’m guessing that you are referring to the conspiracy theory proposed by the American political extremist Lyndon LaRouche, which I have commented on here:

Conspiracy is a weird political whack word which is competently meaningless because of political correctness which is worth… Cough

Anyway I’m glad of your feedback. And I read already the whole link you shared, that’s great.

Still my question remains. It seems I do nothing wrong but the conversion process of my chain produces yet another 441hz track instead of a 432hz track

Let’s do it without withholding excuses. OK I guess you heard about 432hz too often. Maybe it’s just a boring topic :mrgreen:

Sorry Steve this doesn’t answer my question.

Why didn’t the metadata change after the batch conversion?
My files kept the same frequency description as if no change had happened.
If specifications of a file are a joke then why adding them in first place?

You have still not answered my question: What do you mean by “441hz track”?
Perhaps you are referring to the track sample rate of “44.1 kHz” ?

What does “metadata” have to do with this?

A shift of 2% isn’t very much, so the effect won’t be very dramatic even if it works correctly.

Which “specifications” are you talking about?

You have still not answered my question: What do you mean by “441hz track”? Perhaps you are referring to the track sample rate of “44.1 kHz” ?

That’s right sir. In metadata it’s specified as Audio Sample Rate.

What does “metadata” have to do with this?

I see, metadata is less music related, but nevertheless important. So maybe it’s not just a watch to find errors at all cost to be happy but more indicator to verify if our batch processing was not “useless”.

A shift of 2% isn’t very much, so the effect won’t be very dramatic even if it works correctly.

Agree and subscribe. Wasn’t the goal of my effort.
The point which struggles me if my fine tuning succeeded or not. I hoped metadata would change and identify the new output as such. The difference between original and conversion is hard to detect so the confusion.


If you’re still here…

You are confused, but I’m not sure if you’re confused by the terminology or the concepts -

Are you really trying to change the musical pitch? Did you try a more-drastic pitch change to test your batch process? Or, did you try it “manually” without the batch processing?

(I’m a Windows guy, and I never use batch processing/macros so I can’t help with that…)

Note. Most of my music files have a frequency of 441hz, not 440

How do you know, or why do you think that?

A = 440Hz is the modern-Western tuning standard. [u]Ths chart[/u] shows the musical notes & frequencies. As you may know there are several “A” notes on a piano and A4 is tuned to 440Hz, and A5 is 880Hz, etc. You’ll notice that 432 is NOT on the chart. It’s in-between notes on the standard scale.

441Hz is not standard either, although some pianos (or other instruments) may be tuned slightly-sharp (intentionally or unintentionally).

The clock (oscillator) in a soundcard could also be slightly-off causing a 440-to-441Hz pitch (and timing) shift. That wouldn’t “show-up” in Audacity or in any analysis of the file… It’s not an issue with the file, it’s just a playback issue.

You can re-tune a piano to A=432Hz, but of course you have to re-tune all of the strings accordingly and it takes a long time. It’s quick & easy to re-tune a guitar. Horns* & woodwinds can’t be re-tuned because the notes depend on the length of the “tube” and the spacing of the holes.

Of course it’s easy to re-tune a recording with Audacity or other digital processing, or you can simply speed-up or slow-down an analog recording to change the pitch.

Most music contains a subset of musical notes, so although virtually all music is tuned to A=440Hz, there are lots of songs that don’t contain any A-notes or they may have A-notes in higher or lower octaves and none at 440Hz.

When you play an A-note on the piano or on a trumpet there are harmonics (multiples of 440) and it’s these harmonics that make a piano sound different from a trumpet.

Most “real music” contains multiple-simultaneous notes (and chords), instruments, and frequencies. If you open a song in Audacity and go to Analyze → Plot Specturm, you’ll see the full-range of frequencies and 440Hz won’t necessarily stand-out.

A “normal person” can’t listen to a song and hear/know the tuning standard. A musician will only notice the mis-tuning (or odd tuing) when they can’t play-along in-tune. Someone with [u]perfect pitch[/u] might hear the mis-tuning, or they may not… “Perfect pitch” isn’t really perfect, and they may just identify the note as the nearest standard-note.

You can also use Generate → Tone if you want to create 432, 440, and 441Hz tones. I don’t have perfect pitch and I can’t hear the difference between 432 and 440Hz (without a reference).

The tuning standard is NOT part of the normal metadata. Nor is the musical key or the time signature, etc.

44.1kHz (44,100Hz) is a sample rate. Analog audio is [u]sampled[/u] (digitized) at a known sample-rate and it has to be played-back at the same sample rate or the speed & pitch will be wrong. Some common sample rates are 44.1kHz (CDs), 48kHz (most video), 96kHz (professional studio recording). 432 or 43.2 are not standard.

It’s possible to change the speed & pitch by messing-up the sample rate and sometimes that happens accidently, but it’s rare.

The sample rate has to be at least twice the highest audio frequency. The “traditional” range of hearing is from 20Hz to 20kHz, so the CD sample rate of 44.1kHz allows the CD to contain sounds beyond the frequency limits of human hearing. The standard sample rate for telephone is 8kHz which limits the audio to 4kHz. That’s good enough for voice but not good enough for high-quality music.

If you re-sample PROPERLY the sound doesn’t change (assuming you stay at “CD quality” or better). You can change the Sample Rate at the lower-left part of the Audacity window and that will be used when you export the file. If you open a 44.1kHz file and export-as 48khz, the sound won’t change but the file will have more samples so it will be slightly larger (assuming an uncompressed file).

The sample rate is NOT part of the normal metadata. It’s included in the [u]file header[/u] so when you open or play a file it automatically gets played-back at the right speed and the listener doesn’t have to think about it.


192kbps is a bitrate in kilo_bits_ per second. There are 8 bits in a byte, so you can calculate file size if you know the bitrate and playing time. (Except metadata, especially embedded artwork, will make the file larger without affecting bitrate.)

With compressed files, the bitrate is a rough indication of quality. i.e. Lower bitrate = smaller files = more compression = more data thrown-away = lower quality.

We usually don’t talk about the bitrate for uncompressed files but it can be calculated. For example, CDs are 44.1kHz x 16 bits x 2 channels = 1411 kbps.

With lossless compression, bitrate is obviously not a measure of quality. It’s just an indication of the amount of compression.

Normalize -2.040

I suspect you are also confused about [u]Normalization[/u] . Normalization is an amplitude adjustment (unrelated to pitch) and it’s an odd coincidence that you’d normalize to -2.04dB, which is exactly the “number” as your -2.04% pitch shift. -2dB is a little odd to begin with and 2.04dB is unusually precise.

*The sliding trombone is an exception because it can play any frequendy/pitch within it’s range.

Of course you’re experts about the topic and i should respect that. There’s no doubt, and I thank you for the long explanation :ugeek:
It doesn’t really matter who is right or wrong, it’s not that the point.

The point I’m interested in, is that most people who love art is interested in the “beauty” of art, which is more the “superficial” part of that knowledge.

I really wanna know about the therapeutic aspect of music. Nothing is just an accident and reasons often are hidden behind the surface.

Maybe you wanna take a look at this video?

I stared this topic because many people try to understand and not just to accept “something”

So are you saying that you don’t need help using Audacity?

Yes I needed help to understand how Audacity works.
The conversion is minimal and your friendly explanation clarified my doubts.

My music has been converted because of the reasons I explained in my latest post. I’m sure Audacity can do a lot more than the little conversion I did. In case of serious doubts I am glad to ask again in this forums

On screen says “432Hz” here & here, but the notes are different pitches, (only the 2nd one contains 432Hz)

[ BTW the Chladni patterns are dependent on the dimensions of the vibrating plate:
The same frequency will not produce the same pattern on different size plates ].

Conversely, you can get pretty patterns with any frequency, if the plate is the right dimensions. In this video, the plate is tuned to 196 Hz (G3):

BTW the Chladni patterns are dependent on the dimensions of the vibrating plate:

Exactly! That’s how a glockenspiel works - Different size metal bars resonate at different notes/frequencies. Of course, the metal bars in a glockenspiel have standard tuning (A=440Hz). You’d get “pretty” sand-patterns at frequencies related to standard tuning.

The resonances and [u]standing waves[/u] are physics (not psychology or magic :wink: ) related to the size and the speed-of sound inside the metal (which is about 15 times the speed of sound in the air).

If you “feel different” about different frequencies, THAT’s PSYCHOLOGY, but the vibrations of a metal plate are PHYISCS. In general, a minor chord sounds “sad” because of the relationship of all the notes in a chord. If you change the tuning to 432Hz it will still sound dissonant and a major chord will still sound “pleasant” or harmonious. Similarly, a “sour note” only sounds sour relative to the other notes being played. It won’t sound sour when played alone.