Connecting Audacity to and recording from a mixer on Windows

Audacity 3 Help Forum Windows
1

Apologies if this should be in one of the audio technology forums, but I’m not sure where to start.

I am looking at audio mixers with USB output to attach to a Windows 10 laptop running Audacity (2.4.1). I want to create a flexible setup that could be used for meetings, interviews or simply combining several voice/music tracks (as in recording a Podcast).

My first question is just to confirm that a mixer with USB output capability can simply be plugged into a USB port and the incoming audio stream recorded by Audacity (in the same way I plug in a USB turntable and record an album side).

Second question is a bit more complex. Assuming I have this setup running, is it possible to play back a separate audio stream from a different application on the PC to another USB port and from there into the mixer while Audacity is also recording the incoming audio from the mixer?

I am not looking for any connection between the audio being played and Audacity within the PC. I simply want to treat that audio stream as another input to the mixer. I am not asking about simultaneous USB input & output at the mixer - I am assuming I would use a USB-RCA cable to get the audio being played back on the PC into a standard port on the mixer.

Thanks for any help or pointers anyone can provide!

Michael

2

I don’t think you can arbitrarily wave around sound streams like that.

I did something similar with two computers. I really should set that up again and clean it up.

The machine on the right is running Skype. All is well because it thinks it’s the only process in the world and its machine is the only one. Little does it know that its speaker and microphone are connected to the sound mixer.

Meanwhile, on the left. That machine is running Audacity in record to capture the sound mixer’s mix. That leaves the left-hand machine’s playback free for music, stingers, themes, and intersticials.

The mixer has three hot faders: My microphone, Music from the left-hand machine, and the far side Skype voice. All that goes into the left-hand machines Audacity for recording.

The magic part is Mix-Minus. The mixer has a system normally used to send music to a special effects unit such as echo or reverb. I used that to send the Skype machine my microphone and the music, but not the Skype speaker sound.

That keeps echo cancellation and voice processing to a minimum (or zero in this case).

I’m on headphones, so that’s one more echo cancellation nobody has to worry about.

This is an engineering test. So no academy awards for production. Denise and I are four time zones apart.


Koz

3

I super doubt you can manage multiple streams and record them all. Each stream has to do voice management and echo cancellation and it usually does it by taking over the machine. If you launch two of them, you may have a little explosion on your hands. Probably not good sound.

If you do get one to work, post back with details.

Koz

4

There is a software package called Voicemeeter which claims to be able to bust up your machine into different sound channels and manage each of them. But remember each stream is still going to insist on its own sound processing and you can’t stop them.

https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm

Koz

5

Koz,

Thanks for this information. This is terrific. I particularly appreciate the description of the two-machine setup. That’s in fact an answer to another question that I didn’t include so that I didn’t muddy the water (further :slight_smile: ) - where the audio source on the PC is a live application (like Zoom) running on a computer and also has live “on site” input. I figured that would require a second PC. So thank you for that!

In the simpler case I presented, the audio stream from the PC to the mixer is playback only. For example, an MP3 of a pre-recorded voice or a music clip. In that case, Audacity is only accessing the line input (from the mixer) and recording that. It is not doing any playback. Picking up my analogy of having Audacity record an album side from my USB-attached turntable, I have done this while listening to something else on the PC generated by a different application. If that worked, I was thinking, why couldn’t that audio playback be routed out a USB or headphone port to the mixer while Audacity was recording something else? And you’ve answered that questions as well - in the affirmative - because that’s what you’re doing with the left-hand machine.

Using the mix-minus function to send your microphone to the PC should presumably work for virtual meeting applications like Zoom, GoToMeeting or Microsoft Teams as well, I presume? Have you done that?

In theory, would this set up also enable you to use an IP-phone (or other phone) with a headset attachment instead of a Skype call? Perhaps not, if the headset attachment expects mic-level input rather than the line-level input the mixer provides.

Thanks again!

6

because that’s what you’re doing with the left-hand machine.

The left-hand machine doesn’t have to be a full-on computer. It just has to be a recorder. Since I had two serviceable computers, the additional music playback on the left-hand machine was a natural. Machines have two natural pathways. Record and Play. The problem with most productions is they plan multiples of each. “Let’s play the Skype interview to my headphones and then play the music into the sound mixer.” Let’s not. You get one or the other. You run out of machine really fast with that restriction.

This may not be live any more, but I can tell you exactly what each of those machines is doing.

You can have a music playback device. We should remember that any time you add devices or services, you should have a way to cue the work for real time insertion, mix, or production. Nothing like playing blind (or deaf) on a live show. If you don’t do that, then your post-production editing will be a career move.

“Let’s see, John said ydda-yadda and that’s where I’m going to sneak my theme music in. When he says thus-and-so, bring the music up full and close the show.” The grownups do all that live and you can too after you get accustomed to the rhythm and pace of the show, but you need an iron grip on the player and the playlist. You may seem like you’re paying attention to the interview, but really, you’re previewing the next bumper music. I never got good at that, I can walk or chew gum, but I know people who can do most of the show production in real time. I buy them coffee.

Have you done that?

Most testing goes around me because of my internet. My download speed is OK and I don’t notice any problems watching YouTube or recording off-air television, my “up” speed is bad enough that most people aren’t comfortable listening to me as casual conversation or interview—even with all the tricks.

mix-minus function to send your microphone to the PC

On my mixer that looks like FX-SEND and FX SEND is a dedicated mixer out. You can send any input sound to FX-SEND and either send it to Skype Send or not as you wish.

Almost all the sound management inside a computer is “Line Level.” The built-in microphone goes through a microphone amplifier (and any desired processing) before it hits computer routing. The voice is not Super Teensy microphone level for very long. This also means you can interrupt that process and substitute your own line level from the mixer FX-Send.

I need to go back and read your post again. Recording any of the communication, conferencing, and chat services is super painful without that external recorder. Everybody tries to do it all on one machine—and then shows up here wondering why it didn’t work. Or better yet, wondering how to fix their trash audio. Denise didn’t sound like she was 2800 miles away did she? She sounded like she was sitting on the sofa behind me.

We are both ringers. We’re both broadcast professionals. She was wearing headphones in her sun-room office in New Jersey. No special microphone. I think she was using the one in her Mac and if you listen carefully, you can hear the noise processing come and go.

It can be said that we produced the perfect podcast. We spent the whole thing deciding when we were going to have the next podcast.

Koz

7

In theory, would this set up also enable you to use an IP-phone (or other phone) with a headset attachment instead of a Skype call? Perhaps not, if the headset attachment expects mic-level input rather than the line-level input the mixer provides.

You can use any communications service on the right-hand computer. Again, the software thinks it’s the absolute master of the computer and we just won’t tell it about the rest of the studio.

You do need Stereo Line In and Stereo Line Out to make most of these mixer tricks work. You can’t use the little headset connection on the side of most modern computers. That test was done with early Macs which actually had full stereo connections, both directions.

I’m holding on to those machines.

You may need a stereo adapter such as the Behringer UCA-202.

Which is scarce because of the sickness.

Koz

8

Yes, the sound is good on that “podcast”. Yours is terrific, and hers is pretty good. All I notice on that end is occasional “startup hesitation”. There’s probably a technical term for it that I don’t know, but it’s the brief delay in the person’s voice. You notice it on Zoom, etc., where a person’s first words can be slightly cut off.

The left-hand machine doesn’t have to be a full-on computer. It just has to be a recorder. Since I had two serviceable computers, the additional music playback on the left-hand machine was a natural. Machines have two natural pathways. Record and Play. The problem with most productions is they plan multiples of each. “Let’s play the Skype interview to my headphones and then play the music into the sound mixer.” Let’s not. You get one or the other. You run out of machine really fast with that restriction.

Reading your first reply made it clear that a separate record computer is a simpler and better way to go. Everything you’ve said since just reinforces the case. Fortunately, I do have one. It’s a Lenovo like the one you are using, but of more recent vintage. I just retired it as my main machine because it was bogging down badly, mostly disk thrashing. Candidly, I think Windows was a lot of that but I couldn’t manage to do much to improve it. Still, it’s well capable of recording to Audacity while playing something else.

On the playback device, is something like the Behringer box required to get sound from USB computer out to mixer RCA in? There are USB → RCA cables. Do those not work well (or at all)? Or is the problem only that you can’t monitor the sound (say to cue it up)? I’m looking at the earbuds when I ask that question.

You can have a music playback device. We should remember that any time you add devices or services, you should have a way to cue the work for real time insertion, mix, or production. Nothing like playing blind (or deaf) on a live show. If you don’t do that, then your post-production editing will be a career move.

Amen. That’s why my first efforts will likely be putting together pre-recorded segments and limited live voice. Doing all those things in real time takes a lot of practice. You notice the same thing if you’re trying to run a meeting and the Zoom meeting/webinar behind it. I was Chair of my community’s School Committee when the pandemic hit this spring. I was implementing the Zoom technology for the meetings, coordinating the live broadcast of said meeting with my cable access station and chairing the meeting itself while having to be much more deliberate about what we said because of the uncertainties and rapid changes accompanying the transition from real to virtual schooling.