a question on 'jack' server`s relevance in upcoming ubuntu 22.04 LTS

hello i want to ask some tough question:
‘would be strict dependence on jackd preserved in future audacity releases coming with ubuntu 22.04?’

as of today if i want low latency while routing output of several applications into sound editor i have only one option thats using jack server; so if i want to connect midi input of my 'bass whammy' to some midi sequencer for live performance with pre-written pedal moves then i can get it synchronized with audacity in overdubbing mode. but i have :exclamation: very bad :exclamation: experience with jack --namely its messy handling of USB audio interfaces. i mean if a device gets disconnected from USB port jack goes in the rage and my linux lowlatency freezes completely in a couple of seconds.

surely i do not unplug my audio interfaces anymore if having jack running after i have crashed it by myself a dozen of times.
:imp: BUT :smiling_imp: i have two guitar processors by digitech AND they don`t have any CAPACITORS in a power supply --just an old school transformer feeding them with AC. so if [once in 1.5~2 monthes] power line goes out for a couple of microseconds a guitar processor loses power entirely then reboots :arrow_right: BUT JACK HAS GONE INTO THE RAGE ALREADY!!!
imagine ‘line-interactive’ topology UPS --it has switching time of 4~20ms so i need ‘online’ UPS [but i have to repair my beloved first bass and i have several luthery projects and so on].

returning to the subject of this question: about two weeks ago i have read about upcoming integration of pipewire sound server into mainstream linux systems.
would it have the same dismissive behavior as jack has?
would audacity 3 support pipewire?

currently i stopped to use jack [because we have random blackouts here too] for all my applications (musescore; audacity; hydrogen; firefox) but lingot tuner that i cannot get working neither with ALSA nor pulseaudio --only with jack.

thanks for reading!!! cheers!!! :unamused:

It sounds like you need to invest in a UPS or laptop.

hello Steve. you may read in my original post about my reasons :arrow_right: why i dont want to buy that valueable device. here its written again: ’ :imp: i have to repair my first beloved bass
[i`ve gotten all expensive parts (truss rod; bridge; nut; machine heads; pickup; fingerboard) but it has had me spent all my money]
and i have several luthery projects
[one e2 electric guitar (6 strings); two bass models --you know i need large ebony+ziricote body for one project and particularly ziricote is expensive] :smiling_imp: '.
continuing on UPS subject --this model would completely satisfy my performance requirements [its online-topology device]: APC Back-UPS Pro 1200VA [APC Back-UPS Pro BR1200G-RS] but i dont have 341$ because of my luthery tasks.

about a solution of using a laptop:
:confused: DEAR Steve! I USE TWO LAPTOPS ONLY! they have batteries surely…
but can you please read my original post keeping an attention
–‘i have two guitar processors by digitech AND they don`t have any CAPACITORS in a power supply’
THAT TROUBLE IS CAUSED by a computer losing a USB connection with guitar processor not by a computer losing her own power supply.
but i CANNOT USE cheap ‘line-interactive’ topology UPS (please read the explanation in my original post).
bye!!! :unamused:

Audacity doesn’t have a strict dependence on jackd unless it is build with jackd set as a dependency at build time. In other words, the Audacity code does not enforce a dependency on jackd. The dependency is a compile time option, which most distros enable in their builds of Audacity.

That doesn’t make sense, but I think that’s probably a translation issue.
I’m now thinking that you mean that your guitar processors don’t have BATTERIES, and so are reliant on your unreliable mains supply.

saying ‘dependence’ i didnt imply its meaning related to a programming instead i pointed to 'performance dependence' --thats said if i need to use e.g. midi sequencer (for controlling a pitch shifting pedal) SYNCHRONIZED PERFECTLY with audio editor for :exclamation: OVERDUBBING :exclamation: then i have to use some low latency sound server possessing ADVANCED ROUTING CAPABILITIES.
and now there is only option of using jackd.

:confused: Steve why do you suppose i`m a non-native English speaker?
probably you are unfamiliar with electronics so i need to explain it simplier:

this switching power supply transforms AC in DC and for eliminating mains hum it has some electrolytic capacitors :arrow_right: they act AS LITTLE BATTERIES TOO so if unplugging the adapter from an outlet we have it still keeping A LITTLE PORTION OF ENERGY.

this is guitar processor`s rear view --you can see power input port and the rating: 1.3A 9V :exclamation: note ‘AC’ marking :exclamation: (she is very power-hungry device).

and this a photo of my processors power supply ![a capacitor-less power supply 20220419_215632.jpg|2560x1536](upload://wDxkzorXTUqiv9M3LQ66bStOBYu.jpeg) please believe me --there is nothing* but a low frequency (50Hz) transformer inside. it CANNOT HOLD A CHARGE in a manner capacitors do. so if bad main power line does interrupt energy supply for EVEN 2 MILLISECONDS my processor loses consciousness :astonished: IMMEDIATELY :astonished: . that does not happen to my effects using DC power supplies --they tolerate that mains line glitch!!! :unamused: BUT THEY ARE NOT MY USB RECORDING INTERFACES (*mains hum is eliminated by processors own schematics and that circuit CANNOT HOLD CHARGE AS WELL)

Do you have a question?

Should we lock this thread, too?

yes i do… i want a new feature: a support for pipewire because i guess it is a technology superior to obsolete jack.

by the way maintainers of pipewire say: ‘PortAudio apps (audacity) tend doing bad things --opening an audio interface in all possible formats multiple
times to ‘probe’ it. that is expensive’.
and i really hear those clicks from my monitors when audacity starts up or even sometimes before a playback. that is VERY unpleasant noise
[even though i am ambient/noise/trance musician].

so here is that question: 'do we REALLY need PortAudio? wouldnt it be just better to reject obsolete software?' i believe to pipewires developers!!!

Jack isn’t obsolete.
PulseAudio isn’t obsolete.
PortAudio isn’t obsolete.

I expect that pipewire will be supported eventually, though if you wish to send a feature request that the Audacity developers will see, you will need to do it on GitHub (the developers rarely come here)

oh i understand.
but telling that jack or PortAudio are obsolete i meant that they lack some particularly important to me features.
and those issues are coming from their design --i didn’t mean they are abandoned projects.
i was going to say that there are some better technologies around here.

certainly if me would try requesting from developers to break all the ties with PortAudio code base that would be
an inappropriate wish. i understand an overhead required to complete with such radical code change
(i was studying c++ and interface design reading some stuff from internet and i even have a project but in different
language --kTurtle logo script; still cannot get myself understanding its code to work with it after three years of involuntary hiatus).

thanks Steve. i shall not ask for such radical changes from developers. i would wait for pipewire support.

hello again Folks!!! recollecting my back-then-mindset i assert that i do not feel my mindset as being any ‘funny’ [or ‘funky’, ‘silly’ if you wish] BUT
…i have 1.switched to arch linux; 2. lost my happy state of a fascination with wonderful wonderful Audacity v3 [sic]; 3. considered to stop using
my computers for my musical practise (you know, sitting & slapping & thumbing & bowing & arching & RECORDING) in an entire! [just because of
critical performance issues --the most serious is Audacity stopping ALL the recording activity IF I USE BARE Advanced Linux Sound Architecture
but that happened in early may of 2022 while i was still using [xfce4-]ubuntuStudio 20.04 and because my older laptop [made in 2010]
is even at unease with xfce4 i have then decided to refuse to Canonical offering THE ONLY CHOICE of Plasma Desktop for ubuntuStudio 22.04.
…so …it was lowlatency kernel offered by Canonical but NOW i use linux-rt from newest arch repository
…so …maybe …Audacity WOULD record.

the subject of this post:
dear Steve! why did you try to fool me?
if ‘most distributions enable compile-time dependency’ on libjack for AN AUDIO EDITOR so maybe those Folks do know what they are doing?
i was believing to your lies for several MONTHS long!!! but please Steve and other Folks around here take a look on this my pasta of bash output:

[irulan-corrino@amelanchier ~]$ pacman -Qii audacity
Name : audacity
Version : 1:2.4.1-7
Description : A program that lets you manipulate digital audio waveforms
Architecture : x86_64
URL : https://audacityteam.org
Licenses : GPL2 CCPL
Groups : pro-audio
Provides : None
Depends On : expat gcc-libs gdk-pixbuf2 glibc libmad libsoxr soundtouch wxgtk3 libFLAC.so=8-64 libFLAC++.so=6-64
libasound.so=2-64 libgdk-3.so=0-64 libglib-2.0.so=0-64 libgobject-2.0.so=0-64 libgtk-3.so=0-64
libid3tag.so=0-64 libjack.so=0-64 liblilv-0.so=0-64 libogg.so=0-64 libsndfile.so=1-64 libsuil-0.so=0-64
libtwolame.so=0-64 libvamp-hostsdk.so=3-64 libvorbis.so=0-64 libvorbisenc.so=2-64 libvorbisfile.so=3-64
Optional Deps : ffmpeg: additional import/export capabilities [installed]
Required By : None
Optional For : None
Conflicts With : None
Replaces : None
Installed Size : 27.66 MiB
Packager : David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>
Build Date : Wed Jan 12 22:29:34 2022
Install Date : Fri Jun 24 21:58:50 2022
Install Reason : Explicitly installed
Install Script : No
Validated By : Signature
Backup Files :

[irulan-corrino@amelanchier ~]$

‘pacman -Qii audacity’ means ‘list all dependencies for installed package audacity’ issued to archs official package manager; 'Version : 1:2.4.1-7' means that the package [installed from official arch repository] is far below to Audacity v3 that is provided with Audacity Teams official appImage;
‘Depends On : … libjack.so=0-64 …’ means that the packager [Trusted User] David Runge has compiled the stuff as dependent on jackd!!!

you think
that arch linux
that is famous for providing
the stuff directly from upstream linux repository on Github.com
me with stale
or unusable or obsolete stuff?!!

so maybe you DO HAVE the issues with your development team producing a code NOT TRUSTED TO by a Trusted User of arch linux?

so maybe it`s time TO STOP using automated development/testing suites and to learn C/C++ [AND NOT Python or Nyquist]? wxWdgets? Qt?

BYE Folks!!!
forking v1.2.4

I believe that one of the main reasons why Audacity 3.x has not yet been adopted by some distros is that Audacity v3.x requires WxWidgets version 3.1.3, but many Linux distributions are still using version 3.0.x (Debian stable currently uses wkgtk The old wx 3.0 branch is rather old now, but some distros are waiting for wx 3.2 before they upgrade. Wx 3.2.0 is currently at “release candidate” stage, so it will probably be a while before mainstream Linux distros adopt wx 3.2 as their default version.

I agree with David Runge. Jack should be a dependency so that users have the option of using Jack. David Runge decided to build with Jack support (recommended), but he didn’t have to.

Out of interest, I’ve just checked to make sure that Audacity can still be built without Jack (that is: “Audacity doesn’t have a strict dependence on jackd unless it is build with jackd set as a dependency at build time”). And here’s the results:

Built with Jack

Built without Jack

Audacity’s build system has gone through many changes over the years. Very early versions used autotools, then later it moved to cmake. Currently it is using cmake with conan, though I’m not very familiar with the new system. Building without Jack is no longer quite as simple as a command line switch, but it is still very simple for a packager to do if they really wanted to.