I’m a true novice in trying to do something I’m not sure can be done. I have imported a track from a .mov file I’ve done and want the output to play out of four separate speakers. Right now it is a mono track in a .aup file. I have previously cut and dragged sections to additional tracks with other projects and can fade-in and fade-out to bridge the virtual ‘distance’ between speakers. The desired goal is to have the sound travel around the perimeter of a room (speakers can be centered on cardinal points of room). Can this be done as a single export or do I need to make this two completely separate exports with 2 amp/MP3 players (i.e. standard signal to L&R speakers, x 2)? If it needs to be done as two separate exports (coz I’m trying a work around for digital surround sound) what is the best way to synch the sound between the two play-back systems so it is heard as continuous? In effect I am trying to pan across 4 tracks and feed the signal to four speakers. The recording is non-musical non-speech but does have a self-contained continuity, so gaps/skips/jumps may very well be noticeable.
Not exactly. It’s an Audacity Project which is a collection of files managed by the aup supervisory file. You’ll find if you move the aup file to somewhere else without the other files, the show will drop dead. So y’all be careful with that.
2 amp/MP3 players
Nobody on earth has ever been able to get two MP3 (or other) players to start and play in sync.
You should probably start backwards. I would probably start with the assumption that you’re going to use a conventional 5.1 Dolby surround system rather than trying to roll your own, although I have done that. It’s neither convenient nor cheap. Mine was multiple hundreds of dollars and took a lot of floor space.
That means you can create a well-known Dolby AC3 surround music file which I believe you can create using the FFMpeg add-ons in Audacity. I’m fuzzy about that step. You can check.
Then it’s just a matter of loading your music file into Audacity 5 times and use the Envelope Tool (bent blue line and two white arrows) to fade each track in and out as needed – second by second if you want that.
Monitoring is always a pain in the butt with these systems. Audacity will not play multi-track out to speakers. You have to do some of the mixing in your head and hope to goodness you’re right.
Few other music systems will do surround. If you can find a surround music system that’s not Dolby and you can afford, then we can work with that. So the playback system is critical. It can’t be an after thought.
Bother - I am just a simple artist trying for an effect.
Have just trawled through some very long threads about converting to 5.1 and this it is far beyond my abilities. Normally I just push through things the hard way.
What if I made 4 mono tracks, split them as desired into sections of, say, 4+ sec each clip, followed by 12+ sec of silence? this would be a total of 16+ sec as the sound jumps from track/speaker to next track/speaker). There would probably have to be some overlap between clips in the fade-down fade-up.). The whole project is to be a continuous loop so the only kicker would be to synch the 2nd pair of speakers to the first pair (track/speaker 3 to start seamlessly after track/speaker 2) - a matter of trial & error. It wouldn’t matter if the 2nd system synchs into the second or third repeat of the clip as the sound is fundamentally the same.
Then I could take tracks 3 & 4 and cut & paste into a new file and, voila, I can export two files that will work together (-ish).
Do you think this will work?
I can’t see my way to a proper 5.1 surround sound set-up - too much expensive gear waiting to get nicked.
Thanks for warning about separating the .aup from data files - I have done that before and then had to dig for the re-located file to re-unite.
Creating the tracks is dead simple. Showing them to the audience isn’t. Audacity and most computers will not play four tracks at once. You have to start at the display step and work backwards. That’s the hard one.
Two iPods was a good first step, but I’ve seen people try to sync them and it’s not impossible, but it’s darn close. It’s not something you can leave running during the three week run of a show.
Normally I just push through things the hard way.
If you’ve done this before another way, how?
If there’s no requirement for sync between the first and second stereo show, then yes, two iPods set to loop their playlist (consisting of one track) would work.
iPods will not get loud enough plugged directly into speakers, so you have to come up with amplifiers – or amplified speakers.
erm, not sure what you mean ‘showing them to the audience’. But yes, I can manage creating 4 separate tracks.
Two iPods was a good first step, but I’ve seen people try to sync them and it’s not impossible, but it’s darn close. It’s not something you can leave running during the three week run of a show.
I assume any mp3 player with mains power plus port suitable for cable to drive speakers it will work. But you are right, the power down at the end of day means a power up the next day fraught with issues of synchronicity.
Normally I just push through things the hard way.
If you’ve done this before another way, how?
No, just a comment on how I tend to re-invent the wheel sometimes.
If there’s no requirement for sync between the first and second stereo show, then yes, two iPods set to loop their playlist (consisting of one track) would work.
iPods will not get loud enough plugged directly into speakers, so you have to come up with amplifiers – or amplified speakers.
We use those at work to do jobs a remote cousin to what you’re doing.
aHA! these look very good as eliminates the need for lots of cabling to free-standing amplifier, just a mains plug. Not cheap as £ for $ sadly. But if I want to make my audience work at listening, I have recently seen ‘acoustic amplifiers’ for iPhones - specifically the iBamboo
I assume any mp3 player with mains power plus port suitable for cable to drive speakers it will work. But you are right, the power down at the end of day means a power up the next day fraught with issues of synchronicity.
Hundreds of years ago, reel to reel tape machines used the mains power accuracy (amazingly good) to synchronize all their little motors. You could start two tape machines in the morning and they’d be dead on when you went to bed.
That was then. We “improved” things by having little timers built into music players. But the parts used were all slightly off from each other and you can’t start up the show in the morning and have still in sync at lunch let alone the end of the day.
That’s what I’m saying. That’s the killer problem. My mom can make the sound files and anybody with folding money can buy the speakers, it’s that presentation method in the middle that kills.
Four track playback isn’t easy – particularly if you need it to loop and start up in sync again.
I’m a little disturbed that I can’t just wave my hands and come up with a solution, even if it’s silly or not exactly right. The first out of the gate solution is always the Dolby surround thing. There are versions of Dolby that do all numbers of speakers, so four is a snap.
…and no, it’s not that crazy to make a Dolby track. I should try one out when I get home.
Ok, so ‘Synchronize your watches’ doesn’t cut it anymore as all the watches run at different rates? Not something I’d ever considered could happen.
How about this - my sound track is of a waveform breaking on a coast, which is at an acute angle to the incoming wave, thus creating an extremely strong R-to-L pan effect (an isolated shingle beach in SW Ireland). I have slowed the speed as much as possible so it sounds mostly a dull roar, with a subtle sound of water droplets. At first listen, the only discernible change in the clip is of volume (gain?) - the roar gets louder and softer. During the less loud sections, the water droplet sounds are more pronounced.
This may be veering into psychology of sound perception but…what if I were to set up 4 speakers in a room, each positioned at the midpoint along the four perimeter walls (let’s call them N, S, E & W), then split the L stereo signal to drive speakers N & S (opposite each other across the small room) and R drives speakers E & W? The content would be edited so only N&S speakers emit sound for, say, 8 sec, then speakers E &W emit sound for the next 8 sec, with sufficient fade-out overlap. Using a single iPod or mp3 makes it seem like a lot of cabling. Plus cabling for mains to power each speaker…anyone for Bluetooth?
It could turn into a tennis match, but perhaps, as the viewer’s head rotates, there might be the sense of circularity (clockwise) rather than reciprocity (two-man tree saw)? In retrospect, 3-D spatiality is not my goal but linearity is (is this a good post-rationalisation of avoiding Dolbey or what ? the whole idea of encoders, etc does my head in.)
am I any forwarder with this idea? or perhaps it triggers further thoughts in your mind?
I posted this question to the corporate international email alias and got few responses. Everybody starts with a Dolby AC3 file in order to keep everything in sync. Then they all Full Stop. Presenting it to the audience, and looping it is far more difficult.
One suggested a BluRay disk which can be authored with four channels and made to loop forever. Cool. We can do that here in our shop. I looked on the back of our stand-alone BluRay player and it has stereo output and “Digital” out. So we’re at full stop again. I assume I’m supposed to come up with some sort of stream decoder and amplifiers and speakers etc. etc.
We always beat people up for not telling us part numbers and model numbers and other specifics when they post looking for help. It’s my turn. No part numbers. I don’t think you can do that job in a simple, straightforward manner.
If you do get it to work, post back. There are people in 24 time zones hanging on your words.
The Zoom H4 does 4-track, but I think it only has two outputs.
Next to that would be a used, crappy laptop with a four channel audio USB audio device running any number of free players or editors.
For wacky and wonderful approaches, and if you want to get a bit retro with it, you could always scrounge up one of the old Fostex
4-track cassette recorders or an old, used 4-track reel to reel (which would look really cool in a museum display). The tapes would
need to be changed often and the deck cleaned daily, so not good for a fire and forget solution. Better yet, splice up a long tape
loop and let it run around the display. Silly, fragile and extra arty.
Is it possible that the fake surround doesn’t need to be synchronized at all? Like ambient sounds from two speakers and music from
the other two? That gets even easier and might actually produce more interesting and arty results.
For an extra wacky (but exceedingly arty) approach, try a web search for Audio Greeting Card and take a look. For pseudo-synchronized
stuff, with a little ingenuity these could be a lot of fun. Just tear off the speakers and feed them into an amp.
? the whole idea of encoders, etc does my head in.)