I am using audacity to record therapy sessions as per the patient’s permission. I cannot hear them clearly, only myself. I’m wondering if I need to enable/tweak certain features. Essentially, I am looking for troubleshooting tips on how to improve the audio recording for the person who is not running audacity and not in the same room as the person running the app. Currently, I have the default settings- just above the timer, I have:
-“MME” from the dropdown (other options are Windows DirectSound and Windows WASAPI)
-“microphone array (realtek(R) audio) selected” (the other option is "speakers/headphones (realtek(R) Audio) (Loopback))
-“speakers/headphones (realtek(R) audio” (this is only option)
It’s probably the microphone position and/or maybe you are talking louder…
Two carefully positioned microphones into a stereo interface (or a USB mixer) is ideal for an interview situation but it might seem “intrusive” in a therapy setting.
Thanks so much. Would either person having headphones make the audio worse? I know that the person who is more difficult to hear was wearing a headset.
Let me take that again. You can hear them just fine during the session, just that the recording is one-sided. If that’s more accurate, you join the billions of people on Earth struggling to record both sides of a call.
It’s not easy.
You never said which service you’re using. Both Skype and Zoom recognize the problem and offer to record the transaction for you. After the completion, they send you a sound file. I believe both offer a mix and Zoom may be able to send you the two sides individually for post production mixing.
Pamela for Skype is available for you to record it all yourself. It’s Play to Play software. The free-version is restricted.
Thank you so very much! Unfortunately, I am aware of those troubleshooting solutions for those more common interfaces.
The system I am using is called VA Video Connect (VVC) and it is a system internal to the VA medical hospitals.
Is there a certain feature within Audacity that I should have enable or selected in the drop down menus to enhance the recording on the other end of the call? Do you recommend they use a microphone?
The problem is that Audacity is designed to record from one thing at a time, but you want to record two things (your microphone and the VVC app) at the same time.
I’d suggest that you use VVC on your phone rather than on your computer. Enable “speaker phone”, and place your recording mic between yourself and the phone.
I’d suggest that you use VVC on your phone rather than on your computer. Enable “speaker phone”, and place your recording mic between yourself and the phone.
In other words, put your voice and the patient’s voice in the room…and then record the room. The quality is going to go down. The recording is going to pick up all the room noises and the echoes and reverb, but it will be better than what you have.
the person who is more difficult to hear was wearing a headset.
Right. That will make the actual conversation clearer and more stable, but damage the recording because the recording, as you have it, is recording echo cancellation leakage errors, not the actual voice. Headsets have fewer errors and lower leakage.
How are you, personally, performing the session? Free air? Headphones and a microphone? Headset? If you’re doing the session in free-air from a computer, put your phone in the middle, use a recording app, and record the room.
How is the patient performing their side? If they’re on a computer, they can set their phone on a recording app and just leave it running on the desk or table. Send you the sound file.
That’s how I shot this interview.
I don’t know of any “push this button and your problems go away” solution. This is a very serious, complex, and very common problem. All the times I have been able to make successful recordings I’ve used hardware techniques.
At work, we used a “Phantom User.” An “extra” computer is connected to the session as a non-speaking participant. It’s speaker signal had all the voices. Record that.
Thanks so much. Unfortunately, I cannot use VVC on my phone because of VA firewalls/confidentiality issues and the need to have a larger screen on my computer and ease of sending files. I definitely understand and agree with the idea of “recording the room”- it’s just not feasible unfortunately.
I am performing the session with free air, no microphone.
Here’s another piece of information that I learned during a 2 sessions today:
-When I did not have the microphone enabled and the other person did not have a headset, I could hear them fine and could NOT hear me in the playback
-When I enabled my microphone, I could only hear myself and NOT them in the playback
-When I had had no microphone and the other person had a headset: I could only hear myself in the playback
I could use an external recorder in my actual home office or the patient could have the same in their home office- the problem is then emailing a private file over the internet- not allowed in the VA.
When you say you’ve used “hardware techniques” to address this problem, what do you mean? Basically, using other things like a phone or the “phantom user” option? To make sure I understand correctly, the phantom user option means having a 3rd recording source to record both of us?
Lastly, would the other person having a mic help? I doubt it, but I’m open to any obvious and nonobvious solutions.
When you say you’ve used “hardware techniques” to address this problem, what do you mean?
I always add a “thing” or a machine. Everybody goes into this with the idea of communicating easily on the computer and making a good quality recording of both sides on the same computer. Given the success rate, I go into it with the idea that nobody can do that and I have to make other arrangements.
Oh, and do it for free. Pamela for Skype is a pay-to-play application.
I am performing the session with free air, no microphone.
We should clarify that. No external microphone. You’re using the microphone in the computer? And without giving away too much, you and the patient are conversing with each other, in real time, clearly, and the only shortcoming is the inability to record both voices?
VA Support says that due to privacy concerns, VA Video Connect doesn’t support recording. Since most people connect hands-free, they recommend taking a stand-alone sound recorder or voice recording app on your phone with you and leave it running on the table or desk during the call.
Unfortunately, most forums are not allowed due to HIPAA/privacy/confidentiality issues (like zoom, skype). Also, we cannot have an external recorder because then we’d have to somehow upload that audio file and the VA firewall prevents that- everything has to be done within the VA-compliant environment. A few follow-up questions:
1- Would you recommend both people being recorded are hands-free (no headset)?
2- Is it definitely true that none of the dropdown menus in Audacity help with audio quality (e.g., Windows WASPI, MME, Windows Direct Sound)?
3- I had a practice session and when I had the microphone plugged in I could only hear
Would ME having an external microphone enhance their audio quality?
Again, please see below about the testing session I had because this may shed some light on the issue:
-When I did not have the microphone enabled and the other person did not have a headset, I could hear them fine and could NOT hear me in the playback
-When I enabled my microphone, I could only hear myself and NOT them in the playback
-When I had had no microphone and the other person had a headset: I could only hear myself in the playback
There’s no question I can make recommendations to improve the voice quality in the session. That is, make your voice clearer and more pleasant to the client and make their voice clearer and more pleasant to you.
None of these recommendations is going to provide a two-voice recording.
1- Would you recommend both people being recorded are hands-free (no headset)?
2- Is it definitely true that none of the dropdown menus in Audacity help with audio quality (e.g., Windows WASPI, MME, Windows Direct Sound)?
3- Would person recording having a microphone help?
Both people being hands-free is the least stressful given what you do and with usually OK quality.
No question the best hardware decision is put both people on headphones. Not headsets. Just headphones.
During a full hands-free session, VA Video Connect has to actively manage room echoes and destructive feedback at both locations, perfectly, and in real-time. With plain old two-muff headphones most of that sound management task vanishes. You can expect most if not all of the honky, swooshy, talking into a wine glass or milk jug effect to vanish in favor of clear speech.
You affect each other. Your headphones will make you sound better to the client and vice versa. So if all you did was buy good headphones, that would help them a lot.
Having said all that, if the client is sitting at the kitchen table, they are still going to sound like talking in a kitchen. It’s just one layer of voice distortion will vanish.
There is an internet note here. My internet downlink works OK (Youtube cats, etc), but my uplink barely supports voice. So I can hear you, but you will not be able to hear me no matter what.
There is no recommended microphone. Not that it wouldn’t help, it’s just glance over the forum questions and see how many of them have to do with microphone trouble.
How to I get my microphone to work?
My voice is really low.
My voice is distorted.
My computer won’t recognize my microphone.
My voice is tinny and hissy.
Headsets have their own problems. Many gamer headsets are pretty awful. Mine is in a box in the garage. USB headsets have built-in echo because of the data management. Run the other way.
The “professional” solution is to use more hardware: 2 computers and a mixer. Use one computer for the call, and the other for recording. The mixer handles routing the signals.
I just went back over the notes and I think this is a good time for you to flesh this out a little.
I got the impression that we were making a recording so you could more easily review a session so to better provide care.
But that’s not the case any more.
we’d have to somehow upload that audio file
To whom and for what? It sounds like we just tip-toed over the line into surveillance and security. If you are providing a valuable service for other departments or people, it seems to me VA management or IT should be providing this service, not a free audio recording program.
Further, Audacity recently got a note from Dell Computer concerning possible security problems and vulnerabilities.
So between that and HIPAA, this could be seriously uphill, even past the technical problems.
I wasn’t sure if this was possible, so I did a concept test. I am not familiar with cakewalk - but it is free (now), so I thought I’d give it a whirl. I set up cakewalk to record my laptop microphone (MME) while simultaneously playing a familiar song on youtube, which I listened to via earbugs on my laptop. Meanwhile Audacity was recording stereo mix (MME). I then exported the audio (WAV) from cakewalk and imported into Audacity. It was a simple matter for me (since I knew the words), to line up the two audios (via the Time Shift Tool=F5).
This was only a concept test. I have not tried this with Skype or VA Connect.
