Auto Duck?

[Gale_Andrews]

@Roger Priddle

<<Steve wrote:

Roger Priddle wrote:I start with 14 tracks - the source for the “music medley” - Then I add the sound effects tracks (3 is the number for the example). (For this, I’m going to use the terms “source track” for my original recording, “effects track” for the sound effects or dialogue that the music is making way for, and “results track” for the output from a “mix and render”.)


Steve wrote: So have I got this right:
Tracks 1 to 14 contain musical audio clips that will eventually form the “music”. You are referring to these as “source tracks”.
Tracks 15, 16 and 17 are sound effects. You are referring to these as “effects tracks”.
Additional “mix” tracks may be added in the course of working on the projects, which you are referring to these as “results tracks”.>>

Sorry - this is badly clipped from the original conversation…

I think part of my challenge with Audacity, especially when communicating with the rest of the community, is the fact that I don’t know what the “proper names” are for identifying various “classes” of tracks. I have looked around, but not seen definitions - maybe they’re there and I’ve missed them, in which case I appologize - but it seems to me that if we’re all using the same words to mean the same things, we’d be better off.

I didn’t have this problem when working on “simple” projects, but the current project is driving me nuts, especially since I need to keep completely flexible at each stage. So, until there’s an “UnMix and UnRender” command , I have to keep all the tracks separate. And I have to be able to refer to each “type” of track.

You can Edit > Undo a Mix and Render as you can undo any edit.

But if I was you I would do what has already been suggested - “Tracks >Mix and Render to New Track”, rename the the new (mix) track as “Control” or similar then mute the “Control” track.

@Roger Priddle

So far, I appear to have at least 4 distinct “types” of track. I have the one that is brought in from an original pre-recorded musical source. Then I have an area where two “original pre-recorded musical tracks” either butt up or overlap. This is distinct (I presume) from an area where two or more tracks are combined using “Mix and Render”. And what is the proper name for the end product of a “Mix and Render” when the result ends up on it’s own track? “Mix track”?
“Result track”?

As you can see, Audacity calls the mixed and rendered track “Mix”.

@Roger Priddle

Then I have a “sound effect” that has to fit in either between sections of a track or under a section of a track. And a pre-recorded sound effect is different from a piece of dialogue, etc. etc. etc. (Although, I guess, they could be treated as the same type… But should they have a unique, identifying term?)

I am NOT trying to be difficult but these are all (admittedly minor) points that have come up that have needed “clarification” for me one time or another. If I am the only one, I’m sorry and will now slink off into the darkness.

But if I’m not the only one, maybe there could be a concensus “Naming of tracks” document to help people use agreed-upon terms to help describe issues and solutions. (In reviewing this, it occurs to me that there probably ARE agreed-upon terms - every professional field has it’s own jargon. It’s just newbies like me who need the distinctions spelled out…)

What you call the tracks is up to you - there is no hard and fast terminology. Auto Duck knows no term except the “control track” (which is the single unselected track which is placed below the selected tracks that it affects).


Gale

[steve]

@Gale Andrews

You can Edit > Undo a Mix and Render as you can undo any edit.

Just to add; as with all “undo” operations, you can only undo in the reverse order.
So, if you did actions: A → B → C
then you can:
Undo C → Undo B → Undo A
but you cannot undo “A” without first undoing C and B.

[Gale_Andrews]

@steve

@Gale Andrews

You can Edit > Undo a Mix and Render as you can undo any edit.

Just to add; as with all “undo” operations, you can only undo in the reverse order.
So, if you did actions: A → B → C
then you can:
Undo C → Undo B → Undo A
but you cannot undo “A” without first undoing C and B.

Thanks for that. I meant to say that but forgot.

For that reason, you can’t Mix and Render to combine the control tracks, do the Auto Duck then undo the Mix and Render without undoing the Auto Duck. That’s why we’re suggesting Mix and Render to New Track.

Gale

[Robert_J_H]

@Gale Andrews

@steve

@Gale Andrews

You can Edit > Undo a Mix and Render as you can undo any edit.

Just to add; as with all “undo” operations, you can only undo in the reverse order.
So, if you did actions: A → B → C
then you can:
Undo C → Undo B → Undo A
but you cannot undo “A” without first undoing C and B.

Thanks for that. I meant to say that but forgot.

For that reason, you can’t Mix and Render to combine the control tracks, do the Auto Duck then undo the Mix and Render without undoing the Auto Duck. That’s why we’re suggesting Mix and Render to New Track.

Gale

However, you can always copy the result, make your undoes and paste the audio back in–or better into a new project.

[Gale_Andrews]

@Robert J. H.

@Gale Andrews

@steve

@Gale Andrews

You can Edit > Undo a Mix and Render as you can undo any edit.

Just to add; as with all “undo” operations, you can only undo in the reverse order.
So, if you did actions: A → B → C
then you can:
Undo C → Undo B → Undo A
but you cannot undo “A” without first undoing C and B.

Thanks for that. I meant to say that but forgot.

For that reason, you can’t Mix and Render to combine the control tracks, do the Auto Duck then undo the Mix and Render without undoing the Auto Duck. That’s why we’re suggesting Mix and Render to New Track.

Gale

However, you can always copy the result, make your undoes and paste the audio back in–or better into a new project.

If you decide to do that, then you can click on the Track Control Panel of the first track that was auto ducked, hold SHIFT then click on the Track Control Panels of the other tracks that were auto ducked, which selects those other tracks too.

Then Copy, Undo the Auto Duck and the Mix and Render, then Paste.


Gale

[Roger_Priddle]

Ok, so I’m following the comments (at least, I think I’m understanding them), and I just tried to have a voice create a “duck”. I put an empty track below the music track, and recorded a 10 second spoken intro. (Audacity 2.0.6, Windows Home 7, SP1, 4 gb ram on a laptop)

Highlighted the music track (above), clicked “autoduck”, and the programme responded “Autoduck needs a control track that must be placed below the selected track(s).”

So I tried selecting the lower (voice) track. Same message.

I tried it with my intro pre-recorded, then without. SAme message

Everything I’ve tried is responding with the same message. So obviously I’m doing something wrong.
I don’t seem to be able to insert a track that Audacity will recognize as a “Control track”. The recordings are all in stereo, so the added track is too…

Neither the Glossary nor the Help Index have a listing for Control Track. On the Menu Bar, under Tracks, the word Control doesn’t appear, even in the submenus. I can understand the concept - the Control Track controls when/howlong the Music track “ducks”. It has to be directly below the Music track. But nothing I do seems to be working and, if I had hair, I’d be pulling it out about now!

A little more info - my Music track is a whole batch of smaller clips end to end. (I didn’t use the “Mix and Render” - I positioned them manually after copying them all onto one track, then Muted all the tracks but the one I want to hear. The “intro” is on a stereo track - I was wondering if it couldn’t Duck in stereo if the track it was ducking was mono…)

Obviously, I’m missing something - I’d love some help.

[Gale_Andrews]

Please try reading the Manual if you have forgotten how to use Auto Duck.

1. Select the track(s) whose volume you want to modify
2. Deselect the track that is to act as control track
3. Place the tracks so that at least one of the selected tracks to be modified is above the unselected control track. Any other tracks below the unselected control track will also be modified if they are selected. You can use the Track Drop-Down Menu to move tracks up or down if needed.

Another way of saying the same thing is the control track (unselected) must be below the tracks you want to affect (selected).

@Roger Priddle

Ok, so I’m following the comments (at least, I think I’m understanding them), and I just tried to have a voice create a “duck”. I put an empty track below the music track, and recorded a 10 second spoken intro. (Audacity 2.0.6, Windows Home 7, SP1, 4 gb ram on a laptop)

Highlighted the music track (above), clicked “autoduck”, and the programme responded “Autoduck needs a control track that must be placed below the selected track(s).”

We cannot see your computer. Perhaps you only want to affect part of the music track, and so have drag-selected the part of the music track you want to duck, but have deselected the track itself.

To select a track, use UP arrow or DOWN arrow on your computer keyboard to move the yellow focus border around the track you want to select. If the Track Control Panel to left of the blue waves appears cream-coloured, it is not selected. To select it, hit ENTER on your computer keyboard. Now you will see the Track Control Panel is grey, indicating that the track is selected.

What you wrote will not work in any case, unless you used SHIFT + R to append record into the empty track. If you have:

Music Track selected
Empty track not selected
Voice Track not selected

Auto Duck will treat the empty track as the control track and do nothing (though there will be no error).

What you need is:

Music Track selected
Voice Track not selected

@Roger Priddle

So I tried selecting the lower (voice) track. Same message.

That is expected. Please see above.

@Roger Priddle

Neither the Glossary nor the Help Index have a listing for Control Track.

Nor do they need to. Try reading Auto Duck.


Gale

[Roger_Priddle]

Try reading Auto Duck

Trust me - it’s been open for 2 weeks!

OK, by copying and pasting my Music track into a new project, then recording a small spoken text into the track below the music track, then selecting Autoduck, it worked!

That’s the good news. Now my challenge is that, in the course of about 30 minutes of Music track, I want 3 or 4 spoken bits, not contiguous, which the upper Music track should “duck” each time.

I can Undo the Autoduck that I just tested above. Then record and position the subsequent bits in the voice track. Then select Autoduck. By doing this, I assume the music track will Duck each time it sees a signal in the track below, but come back up (cease ducking) when that part of the voice track (which I suppose is the Control Track) is silent.

2 questions - 1) Will the AutoDuck work that way on multiple but non-contiguous signals in the Control Track? and 2) Is there an easier (more elegant) way to achieve what I’m trying to accomplish?

3rd question - I want to insert some “ads” into the Music track. I know I can split the track and shift the rest to the right to make room for the ads. I assume this will cause no problem to any Ducks that have already occured. (Yeah, I know the implications of “assume”…)

What I envision happening is that any Ducks “downstream” from the insertions will stay but no longer be lined up with the material on the Control track that they are ducking. If true, that can be fixed by repositioning the material on the Control track below the already-in-place Ducks.

If I’ve got all this correct, then with the Music track containing all the material it needs (music and ads and Ducks), and the Control track (directly below the Music track and containing only those (in my case) spoken bits that the Music track has ducked, all I have to do is select the two tracks (Music and Control), select , and I will have a new, single stereo track containing all the material for my 30 minute intro.

The last step would be to select that track and export it as a .mp3 for the guy in the sound booth to play at the appropriate time.

(Ok that’s not really the last step - I have 2 more 20 minute segments to do the same things to - and the real “last step” will have me enjoying a beverage of my choice!) (And it will be raised in salute to all here who have helped me! Many thanks.)

Roger

[Gale_Andrews]

I believe the principles of Auto Duck have been explained numerous times in this thread.

You can only have one control track, which must be unselected.

You can select multiple tracks for ducking, which must be placed above the control track.

If you choose to have sections of white space or silence in the tracks for ducking, Auto Duck will ignore those sections and they will remain as white space or silence.

If you choose to have sections of white space or silence in the Control Track (your voice), then the music track(s) above will not be ducked where the Control Track has white space or silence.

If you are not sure what will happen in a particular scenario, it may be a good idea to try it.


Gale