Request "mono" and "optimal output" on MP3 export screen

[kozikowski]

That was me [raising hand].

I got burned early on with a CD/DVD burner for my home-built Windows machine that came with a Audio CD Authoring Program — that wouldn't accept mono sound files. Of course, I didn't find that out until quite a bit of struggling. The program had a number of other serious shortcomings as well, and the CD drive maker would have been well-served in not using it, but there it is.

I'm on much firmer ground with the other. I know that my clients are editing their shows on video machines that get along really well with 48000, 16-bit, Stereo sound files (video standard). So that's what I supply and it doesn't matter if they started out a mono voice capture or not. Actually, I produce a stereo track directly from the session. I don't convert anything.

http://www.kozco.com/pictures/boothFini ... op-mic.jpg
http://www.kozco.com/pictures/boothFinished/mixer.jpg

The goal is not to push the limits of technology or exhibit my superior knowledge of cross-format compatibilities, but to provide a sound file that is as unremarkable as it can be.

"That went very well with the least number of surprises. We have another sound shoot coming up. What's Koz doing?"

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

Throwing in another (closely related) item. I recall several topics where users specifically want to export a 2 channel file, even if the project is mono.
Reasons for this include using CD burning software that requires stereo WAV, and another was "my client requires a 2 channel WAV file" (the customer is always right).

I don't think those have ever got into "Feature Requests". I've clung on to mentioning "make a stereo file for CD burning" in the Manual, but I suspect very few burning apps need stereo these days.

I can recall requests for "Tracks > Mono Track to Stereo" but we tend to discourage accepting such a request because it fosters a mistaken belief that dual mono sounds different or better than mono.

My guess is that if we wanted an easier way to make mono into stereo it should be done in the GUI before you export. Even now, a user could enable "Use custom mix" in Preferences and make stereo that way.

If we ever have a custom export dialogue with bells and whistles, "Use custom mix" could be a slideout in that dialogue.


Gale

[steve]

If we were to provide "1 channel (mono)/ 2 channel" options for all formats, then the obvious place would be in the Export dialogue:

Channels:

• Default (mono or stereo to match the project)
• Force mono file
• Force 2 channel file
• Use custom mix

[Gale Andrews]

If we were to provide "1 channel (mono)/ 2 channel" options for all formats, then the obvious place would be in the Export dialogue:

Channels:

• Default (mono or stereo to match the project)
• Force mono file
• Force 2 channel file
• Use custom mix

Yes something like that is what I would have in mind, but we would have to have a far more powerful custom export dialogue, and I think the Advanced Mixing Options dialogue would have to be part of that custom export dialogue. There are other choice we want in there too like "no metadata" and white space before audio /audio before zero handling.

With the dialogue we have now the only way I see to provide "force" choices are a menu command, a Preference or a choice in options for each format.


Gale

[steve]

Yes something like that is what I would have in mind, but we would have to have a far more powerful custom export dialogue, and I think the Advanced Mixing Options dialogue would have to be part of that custom export dialogue. There are other choice we want in there too like "no metadata" and white space before audio /audio before zero handling.

In the meantime, how about something rather more simple that could be achievable for 2.0.6, for example:

mp3-export.png (34.41 KiB) Viewed 1785 times

Update: The "Channel Mode" options should be greyed out as "Force Mono" is selected.

[Gale Andrews]

In the meantime, how about something rather more simple that could be achievable for 2.0.6, for example:

mp3-export.png

Thanks.

What GUI changes occur if "Lame default" is checked? Is it on by default? If nothing else, the Quality drop-down must be disabled when "Lame default" is checked, even if "Advanced options" are enabled.

I also think the two "Force" options should be disabled when "Lame default is checked. The point of "Lame default" is that they are using the mono/stereo state of the input to determine the bit rate.

"Default" may not be the right word even if it's on by default. It may suggest that LAME will be free to do auto-resampling.

I am not sure Bit rate mode and bit rate are "advanced". JS/Stereo and encoding speed may be.

What happens if "Advanced options" are not enabled?

What happens if "Advanced options" and "Lame default" are both unchecked? What bit rate is used then?


Gale

[steve]

What GUI changes occur if "Lame default" is checked?

Well it's only a Gimp mock-up, so it could be anything that we want.
I'd imagine that it would grey out everything apart from the Force mono/Force stereo options. What do you think would be most useful?

I also think the two "Force" options should be disabled when "Lame default is checked. The point of "Lame default" is that they are using the mono/stereo state of the input to determine the bit rate.

I agree with your logic, but I think it would be more useful to allow overriding the default mono/stereo selection. Thus:
Stereo project: Lame default + Force stereo => stereo 128 kbps CBR.
Stereo project: Lame default + Force mono => mono 64 kbps CBR.
Mono project: Lame default + Force stereo => 2 channel 128 kbps CBR.
Mono project: Lame default + Force mono => mono 64 kbps CBR.

This would allow users to reduce the file size by exporting as mono, which I believe has been requested.

Perhaps the Force Mono / Force Stereo options should be above the "Lame default" setting and "Lame default" renamed to be clear that it is referring to the bit rate format.

Code: Select all

Force output channels:
   (_) 1 channel (mono) 
   (_) 2 channels
Bit rate:
   [_] Lame default (128kbps stereo/64kbps mono)

There should not be a "Use advanced options" check box because that will need to be enabled if "Lame default" is not enabled, otherwise the bit rate is undefined.

[Gale Andrews]

What GUI changes occur if "Lame default" is checked?

Well it's only a Gimp mock-up, so it could be anything that we want.
I'd imagine that it would grey out everything apart from the Force mono/Force stereo options. What do you think would be most useful?

My original idea was that everything else would be greyed out. This would be an "automatic" setting (but we still force output sample rate to the input sample rate - letting lame choose output sample rate needs to be another option if we want it).

The "auto" setting would probably say something like "Auto, set by project: CBR, 128 kbps joint stereo/64 kbps mono".

I also think the two "Force" options should be disabled when "Lame default is checked. The point of "Lame default" is that they are using the mono/stereo state of the input to determine the bit rate.

I agree with your logic, but I think it would be more useful to allow overriding the default mono/stereo selection. Thus:
Stereo project: Lame default + Force stereo => stereo 128 kbps CBR.
Stereo project: Lame default + Force mono => mono 64 kbps CBR.
Mono project: Lame default + Force stereo => 2 channel 128 kbps CBR.
Mono project: Lame default + Force mono => mono 64 kbps CBR.

This would allow users to reduce the file size by exporting as mono, which I believe has been requested.

That has definitely been requested, but not by the same people who want a one-click "auto" setting.

I agree it could still be useful to some who want an "auto" setting. I just think it is potentially confusing and inconvenient to people whose project input is already stereo or mono as they want it and who want a single "set it and forget it" setting.

For example, I know that several people requesting this "auto" feature import mono files sometimes and stereo files at other times and they need to upload either mono or stereo, not dual mono, to wherever their files have to go. They may only think a mono file must be uploaded as mono, but it's a common assumption. They then have to change that "Force" button every time they switch between a mono and stereo import. They won't be happy.

So if we want a way to have an auto bit rate determined by the mono/stereo export button, I think that must be a separate choice.

It could be ( [*] being a choice where you can enable one or none ):

Code: Select all

== Auto, CBR, 128 kbps joint stereo/64 kbps mono ==
[*] Set by project 
[*] Set by force mono/stereo choice 
===================================================

If "Set by project" is enabled, all else is greyed out. If "Set by force mono/stereo choice" is enabled, all else except the "Force" buttons are greyed out.

But this adds a lot of complication for what may be small gain.

There should not be a "Use advanced options" check box because that will need to be enabled if "Lame default" is not enabled, otherwise the bit rate is undefined.

So can we get rid of "Use advanced options"? I still don't understand that.


Gale

[steve]

That has definitely been requested, but not by the same people who want a one-click "auto" setting.

I agree it could still be useful to some who want an "auto" setting. I just think it is potentially confusing and inconvenient to people whose project input is already stereo or mono as they want it and who want a single "set it and forget it" setting.

For example, I know that several people requesting this "auto" feature import mono files sometimes and stereo files at other times and they need to upload either mono or stereo, not dual mono, to wherever their files have to go. They may only think a mono file must be uploaded as mono, but it's a common assumption. They then have to change that "Force" button every time they switch between a mono and stereo import. They won't be happy.

Lame default bit rate: Enabled
Force mono: disabled (default)
Force stereo: disabled (default)

[Gale Andrews]

Lame default bit rate: Enabled
Force mono: disabled (default)
Force stereo: disabled (default)

I think you should code something up or give a full description of what you propose.

It is still not clear to me what the "Use advanced options" does, and it is not clear to me what the above means. Are those all checkboxes? You were originally talking about radio buttons for "Force". If enabling Lame default (which is not a good term IMO) disables (greys out) the "Force" radio buttons, how does user enable the default bit rate and the force options, which seems to be what you want?


Gale