Automated editing

[Gale Andrews]

I was thinking of a checkbox in the straight export dialogue.

Something like:
Export labeled regions only: [_]
?

I was actually thinking of a more general option not requiring labels, analogous to "Include white space before start of audio" which I think is wanted. The command would be "Exclude white space between clips" or similar.

But if user has labeled audio, something like "Export only labeled audio regions" would save having to split delete (or delete) the audio they don't want. Perhaps this is more generally useful than my idea, but I can see both having uses.

In some ways it might be more discoverable to make this a File menu item of its own "Export Labeled Audio Regions..." but then it would probably seem too much like a multiple file export.


Gale

[steve]

I was actually thinking of a more general option not requiring labels, analogous to "Include white space before start of audio" which I think is wanted.

"Include leading white space" is definitely wanted. For anyone using Audacity alongside a DAW the removal of that feature was an annoying regression.

The command would be "Exclude white space between clips" or similar.

OK, I can see that working with three way radio buttons. Perhaps:

• Keep all white space: [_]
• Ignore leading white space: [X]
• Export audio clips only: [_]

But if user has labeled audio, something like "Export only labeled audio regions" would save having to split delete (or delete) the audio they don't want. Perhaps this is more generally useful than my idea, but I can see both having uses.

It could be likened to a multi-region "Export Selected Audio". In fact (you probably won't like this ) it could replace "Export Selected Audio". In the case of exporting one selection it is one more click (Ctrl+B) than the current "Export Selected Audio", but does have the advantage that because it is labelled it is easier to check that the region is correct before exporting. The main benefit of course being that it is "multi-region" which makes it very much more powerful than "Export Selected Audio".

In some ways it might be more discoverable to make this a File menu item of its own "Export Labeled Audio Regions..." but then it would probably seem too much like a multiple file export.

Which brings it full circle to why I thought it could be in "Export Multiple"

How about replacing "Export Selected Audio..." with "Export Regions..." and the default option in the dialogue is "Export selected region"?
Other options being "Export labeled regions" and "Export non-silent regions"? ("silent" meaning absolute silence or white space).


Yet another possibility would be in the editor to have an option to "Collapse labeled region". Ideally this would be selectable per label, but also a menu item to "Collapse all selected labeled regions(s)" and possibly "Silence labeled region". These would in effect allow non-destructive delete and split delete.

[Gale Andrews]

But if user has labeled audio, something like "Export only labeled audio regions" would save having to split delete (or delete) the audio they don't want. Perhaps this is more generally useful than my idea, but I can see both having uses.

It could be likened to a multi-region "Export Selected Audio". In fact (you probably won't like this ) it could replace "Export Selected Audio". In the case of exporting one selection it is one more click (Ctrl+B) than the current "Export Selected Audio", but does have the advantage that because it is labelled it is easier to check that the region is correct before exporting. The main benefit of course being that it is "multi-region" which makes it very much more powerful than "Export Selected Audio".

You're correct I don't like it but the similarity to "Export Selected Audio" struck me too.

If Audacity self-labelled the selection with the label "Exported" or similar, but there was a preference to auto close the label after completion of export, it "might" be viable. Then it would come down to the name of the menu item. The name "Export Labeled Audio..." wouldn't let people discover this was how to export an initially unlabeled selection. "Export Regions..." would let them discover, but you have another idea below which may be better.

In some ways it might be more discoverable to make this a File menu item of its own "Export Labeled Audio Regions..." but then it would probably seem too much like a multiple file export.

Which brings it full circle to why I thought it could be in "Export Multiple"

Right, but it isn't a multiple file export, so armed with that knowledge, "Export Multiple" would not be the first place I would look for exporting multiple pieces as a single file. I agree some people might look there, especially if they never used Audacity before.

How about replacing "Export Selected Audio..." with "Export Regions..." and the default option in the dialogue is "Export selected region"?

This could be useful. The danger is being unclear we're only exporting a single file.

So when "Select All... if none" is off in Tracks Preferences, would "Export Regions..." require at least one of a selected region, a region label (selected or not), or a "space-separated clip" (see below)?

Other options being "Export labeled regions" and "Export non-silent regions"? ("silent" meaning absolute silence or white space).

I'm not sure that last option should exclude export of absolute silence, because silence is legitimate audio.

Isn't it really in effect "Export space-separated clips"?

Yet another possibility would be in the editor to have an option to "Collapse labeled region". Ideally this would be selectable per label, but also a menu item to "Collapse all selected labeled regions(s)" and possibly "Silence labeled region". These would in effect allow non-destructive delete and split delete.

Is this Tracks > Edit Labels... ?

This seems to be additional rather than an alternative to File > Export Regions... , yes?

Another enhancement would be to select or flag multiple labels, so that specific labels could be excluded even if they fell within the selection.


Gale

[steve]

So when "Select All... if none" is off in Tracks Preferences, would "Export Regions..." require at least one of a selected region, a region label (selected or not), or a "space-separated clip" (see below)?

As with "Export Multiple" I think that the menu item should always be enabled when there is audio in the project.
Options can be greyed out if not available and a warning message if no options are available (as in "Export Multiple").

I'm not sure that last option should exclude export of absolute silence, because silence is legitimate audio.

OK.

Isn't it really in effect "Export space-separated clips"?

I'd not include the words "space-separated" as that implies to me that the spaces are retained in the file (which is what happens with normal export).

[Robert J. H.]

Why don't you introduce a new command such as "Concatenate Labeled Audio Regions to new Track(s)" (somewhat shorter of course...).
One could thus listen to the result(s) prior to export.
And there should also be a command to convert point labels to region labels.

[steve]

And there should also be a command to convert point labels to region labels.

How does that work? Can you describe what that does and how it would be used?

[Robert J. H.]

And there should also be a command to convert point labels to region labels.

How does that work? Can you describe what that does and how it would be used?

Ey, you got me there...
I would extent the point label (e.g., those created per Ctrl-m, during playback) to its neighbour on the right or the track end.
It could be in the right click menu or the Label Editor. The latter option is of course preferable from my perspective. It would be especially useful if the Editor supported multiple selectivity as in the explorer view.
You could thus select all labels you want to keep, convert them to regions and concatenate them either on export, in the Edit menu-->Labeled Audio (proposed command above) or the editor itself.
At any rate, the type of the labels should be perceptual without the need of navigating to the time fields. For instance with a dot or underscore or a tool tip.

I also wonder if Ctrl-b couldn't have another functionality during playback, for example:

- You start playback
- you set the region start with the normal "Set (or Extend) Left Selection" key (don't know what it is on en English keyboard, I've assigned "L")
- You press Ctrl-b to create a region label that finishes at the current position.
- The selection start is automatically set to this new position, in order to create region labels continuously.
- white space is simply created by pressing Set (or Extend) Left Selection" later during play back.

Technically, Ctrl-b during play back would simulate three keystrokes at once:
- "Set (or Extend) Right Selection"
- "Set (or Extend) Left Selection"
- Ctrl-b as in the stop mode.

I think, that's highly accessible and intuitive. Other opinions?

[steve]

It could be in the right click menu or the Label Editor. The latter option is of course preferable from my perspective.

I think that it is generally agreed that all right click menus need to be available by an accessible means.

I also wonder if Ctrl-b couldn't have another functionality during playback, for example:

- You start playback
- you set the region start with the normal "Set (or Extend) Left Selection" key (don't know what it is on en English keyboard, I've assigned "L")
- You press Ctrl-b to create a region label that finishes at the current position.

The default key for setting the left end of the selection is the left square bracket key.
The default key for setting the right end of the selection is the right square bracket key.
To create a region label during playback you can press the "set left selection" key, then the "set right selection" key, then Ctrl + B.

I think an "Expand label" function is a good idea. Perhaps there should be two versions; "Expand to right" and "Expand to left". I'm not sure what should happen if you issue the command to expand labels that are overlapping. Perhaps that should produce an error and only allow expanding labels that do not overlap other labels.

[Gale Andrews]

So when "Select All... if none" is off in Tracks Preferences, would "Export Regions..." require at least one of a selected region, a region label (selected or not), or a "space-separated clip" (see below)?

As with "Export Multiple" I think that the menu item should always be enabled when there is audio in the project.
Options can be greyed out if not available and a warning message if no options are available (as in "Export Multiple").

OK, I can see the point, hopefully developers would not be too antagonistic to a message if no options were available.

I'm not sure that last option should exclude export of absolute silence, because silence is legitimate audio.

OK.

Isn't it really in effect "Export space-separated clips"?

I'd not include the words "space-separated" as that implies to me that the spaces are retained in the file (which is what happens with normal export).

OK, I don't like that as a wording but I was trying to clarify what would be exported.

If we just said "Export clips" and there were contiguous clips separated only by a split line, it could suggest that each clip would be exported as a separate file.

I think the idea is to ignore white space that separates clips when exporting (and so any white space before the first clip began would be ignored too). Right? So this is the same as the last "Export audio clips only" option of the suggested:

Keep all white space: [_]
Ignore leading white space: [X]
Export audio clips only: [_]

But we still need the first two options of the three for "Export Regions" and "Export Labeled Regions"? Yes?


Gale

[steve]

hopefully developers would not be too antagonistic to a message if no options were available.

I don't think they will be as long as the message is brief. I think the consensus there is that if the user wants a detailed explanation they should read the appropriate section of the manual (imo a "Help" button would greatly assist).

If we just said "Export clips" and there were contiguous clips separated only by a split line, it could suggest that each clip would be exported as a separate file.

How about replacing "Export Selected Audio..." with "Export Regions..." and the default option in the dialogue is "Export selected region"?

This could be useful. The danger is being unclear we're only exporting a single file.

It may help (if we do this) to also rename "Export Multiple" to "Export Multiple Files", or, we handle exporting multiple sections in "Export Multiple" with an option for exporting as one file (depending on whether we prefer to interpret "Export Multiple" as "Export multiple files" or "Export multiple things".)

I think the idea is to ignore white space that separates clips when exporting (and so any white space before the first clip began would be ignored too). Right? So this is the same as the last "Export audio clips only" option of the suggested:

Yes, "Export audio clips only" means the same as "ignore all white space", but I think it is generally preferable to word it in terms of what it does (exports audio clips) rather than what it does not do (not white space).

But we still need the first two options of the three for "Export Regions" and "Export Labeled Regions"? Yes?

I'm not sure what you are referring to. This would be for which menu item?