Regular Interval Region Labels

[steve]

Obviously it means that the control for the final label would be removed, but I think that control is of use in fringe cases.

I would expect that for those "fringe cases" there are multiple workarounds, none of which will take more than 3 seconds.
For example, if you just want a point label at the end of the track: K, then Ctrl+B takes me less than 1 second.

When labelling tracks with point labels for Export Multiple, a "final label" at the end of the track is not be required. There is nothing to export beyond the end of the track.

At present a final label will probably be required in the example shown in my previous post. In this example case I think "the right thing to do" is to add a label at 4 seconds.

There may be one or two exception, but for the benefit of the masses I think this effect should be able to do "the right thing" without that extra control.

If you think of any specific use cases that are not covered by the plug-in doing "the right thing" then we can reconsider, but otherwise I'd much prefer to avoid a control that sometimes appears to not work.

[steve]

You don't give the settings used to produce those labels, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it if user did not ask for a final label.

I gave the important setting here: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 54#p233054
"If "Adjust label interval to fit length" is set to YES, and "Add final label" set to NO, is this what you expect to happen?"

If we then change "Add final label" to YES, I asked: "As we have a control for "and one more label please" we need to decide what to do with it."
and you replied: "I vote for "at the end of the selection"
but then we don't have "Regular Interval Labels".

[Gale Andrews]

To be clear, this addition to the plug-in does not change any existing feature in the current plug-in.

The slightly weird looking behaviour that you point out is already in the plug-in that we have been shipping for however many years. The new feature just makes the strange behaviour visible in a different way, but the "weirdness" is already in the algorithm.

Here is an example that illustrates the current weirdness:

1) Generate a tone 5 seconds duration.
2) Add Regular Interval Labels:

• Time of first label = 0.
• Label Interval = 2 seconds.
• Add final label = No.
• Adjust Interval to fit length = No

Only 2 labels are produce. The first at 0 seconds and the second at 2 seconds.
Why is there no label at 4 seconds? There is room for another label and I asked for labels every 2 seconds so where is the label at 4 seconds?

Presumably it's allowing for the final label even though user did not ask for it.

The addition of labeled region length has "introduced" an issue that if length is non-zero and number of labels are specified, the "Adjust label interval" setting affects the label placement. The cause may be the same, let's hope the fix is the same.


Gale

[Gale Andrews]

You don't give the settings used to produce those labels, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it if user did not ask for a final label.

I gave the important setting here: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 54#p233054
"If "Adjust label interval to fit length" is set to YES, and "Add final label" set to NO, is this what you expect to happen?"

If we then change "Add final label" to YES, I asked: "As we have a control for "and one more label please" we need to decide what to do with it."
and you replied: "I vote for "at the end of the selection"
but then we don't have "Regular Interval Labels".

Nor do we if user sets "Adjust label interval" to "Yes".

Are you suggesting the "final" label (if added) should respect the label interval when "Adjust label interval" is "No", such that the "final" label would be after the end of the selection? Does that make sense for point labels?


Gale

[steve]

So I expect "Adjust label interval" to have no effect if I am placing by number of labels.

What we need to consider is what is most useful to users and how to make that as convenient as possible. If necessary we can update the manual, and if warranted we can change the plug-in too - after all, that is what "development" is about. If we didn't develop anything we'd still have Audacity 0.8.

When placing by number of labels, I can see two use cases:

tracks004.png (20.87 KiB) Viewed 2384 times

The user wants 3 labels.
For "case 1" (first label track) the use wants the labelled intervals to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 3.
Add Final Label NO.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: N/A

For "case 2" (second label track) the use wants the labels to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 2.
Add Final Label YES.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: N/A


What would be better in my opinion would be to do away with the "Add Final Label" and use "Adjust label interval to fit selection" instead.

For "case 1" (first label track) the use wants the labelled intervals to fit the selection.
the settings would be:
Number of labels 3.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: YES


For "case 2" (second label track) the use wants the labels to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 3
Adjust label interval to fit selection: NO

[steve]

Why is there no label at 4 seconds? There is room for another label and I asked for labels every 2 seconds so where is the label at 4 seconds?

Presumably it's allowing for the final label even though user did not ask for it.

Which is what you complained about in your second post: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 49#p233049
"-1. I chose to have no final label (which is default), so I don't expect the algorithm to assume I set a final label."

[Gale Andrews]

At present a final label will probably be required in the example shown in my previous post. In this example case I think "the right thing to do" is to add a label at 4 seconds.

There may be one or two exception, but for the benefit of the masses I think this effect should be able to do "the right thing" without that extra control.

Obviously it should - there should be a label at 4 seconds irrespective of the "Final Label" control.

The discussion seems to be: should the "Final Label" go at the end of the track, after the end, or we don't have a control for the "Final Label". Actually, I see it as an "Extra Label".

Gale

[Gale Andrews]

Why is there no label at 4 seconds? There is room for another label and I asked for labels every 2 seconds so where is the label at 4 seconds?

Presumably it's allowing for the final label even though user did not ask for it.

Which is what you complained about in your second post: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 49#p233049
"-1. I chose to have no final label (which is default), so I don't expect the algorithm to assume I set a final label."

I'm still complaining about it. See above.


Gale

[steve]

Are you suggesting the "final" label (if added) should respect the label interval when "Adjust label interval" is "No", such that the "final" label would be after the end of the selection? Does that make sense for point labels?

I'm saying that that would be the "correct" thing to do if we have the current scheme AND we don't do what I originally suggested, but I don't think it is a sensible thing to do and I see no use case for doing so.
What I would prefer is that we update the scheme and do away with "Add final label" as described here: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 70#p233170

[Gale Andrews]

So I expect "Adjust label interval" to have no effect if I am placing by number of labels.

What we need to consider is what is most useful to users and how to make that as convenient as possible. If necessary we can update the manual, and if warranted we can change the plug-in too - after all, that is what "development" is about. If we didn't develop anything we'd still have Audacity 0.8.

When placing by number of labels, I can see two use cases:

tracks004.png

The user wants 3 labels.
For "case 1" (first label track) the use wants the labelled intervals to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 3.
Add Final Label NO.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: N/A

For "case 2" (second label track) the use wants the labels to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 2.
Add Final Label YES.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: N/A

I don't even understand the distinction between "labelled intervals fit the selection" and "labels fit the selection" in the most common case we don't have a final (extra) label.

As it is now, if I have a selection of 4 seconds and ask for three labels with no final label, I get three label intervals each with an interval of 1.333 seconds according to Selection Toolbar, whether I set "Adjust" to "Yes" or "No".

Under your scheme, which option is that?

What would be better in my opinion would be to do away with the "Add Final Label" and use "Adjust label interval to fit selection" instead.

For "case 1" (first label track) the use wants the labelled intervals to fit the selection.
the settings would be:
Number of labels 3.
Adjust label interval to fit selection: YES


For "case 2" (second label track) the use wants the labels to fit the selection.
the settings are:
Number of labels 3
Adjust label interval to fit selection: NO

Please provide a screenshot of case 1 and 2, no final (extra) label, to see if I can understand what you are getting at.

Then screenshots for case 3 and 4 which is case 1 and 2 with region labels instead.


Gale