Labels wish-list

[steve]

I don't see in what way right-click (context key) is inaccessible.

I've been looking into the possibility of "Remove Selected Labels" as a right click option, but there is a problem - the context menu is already tied to the track drop-down menu for the track in focus, so we can't access a right click menu with the context key.

The good news is that I've got "Remove Selected Labels" to work with a right click in the label track, though it still needs some work.

[Gale Andrews]

If the user prefers to be able to delete the selected labels even when a label is open for editing, they can choose this behaviour by changing the key binding to a non-printable sequence (for example Ctrl+Shift+H)

Most text and word processors don't allow SHIFT + DELETE to do anything. Wouldn't it be more useful to have SHIFT + DELETE delete the label if open for editing? It may not be obvious that you can ENTER then SHIFT + DELETE to delete the label.

And if you click in the right edge of the label, Press Play button and then decide to SHIFT + DELETE, it may not be obvious why that has no effect.

I also noticed an oddity (nothing to do with your patch) that makes DELETE (and SHIFT + DELETE in your patch) delete an open label without first deleting characters if you undo back to an open label.

1. Generate > Tone
2. Click in the Tone
3. CTRL + B
4. type

   Code: Select all

   12345678910
   

5. ENTER to confirm label
6. Click to left of "1" in the label and DELETE until you remove the label
7. CTRL + Z four times to reinstate the text "2345678910" - but the cursor is not in the label, so
8. A single DELETE removes the label and the project.

Should not undo put the cursor back in the label?

Are you suggesting having label editing button(s) in the Label Track Control Panel? Edit buttons of any sort in track control panels would be quite a radical departure.

What else did you think I was suggesting? This is not an editing feature, as you point out. Track Control Panels have an [X] button to remove themselves.

I have suggested Edit Toolbar as a second-best alternative location for a button (and that would do exactly the same as your menu option).

But if you want the majority to find this feature easily I think you need a button on the Label Track Control Panel. What is the value of keeping it empty? We should be thinking of ways to use that space. The only other use I can recall being suggested for it would be a button to allocate tracks to Sync-Locked Track Groups.

As the function "removes selected labels", it is expected behaviour that the short nested label will also be removed. [...]I don't see this as a "limitation" or "bug", but rather as outside the scope of what the feature does

Good so we agree this is useful for nested labels but only if they don't get "too complex".

very often you will be deleting just one label, in which case "Click -> Enter -> Shift+Delete" is very convenient.

I bet a lot of people would rather have the [X] on the label stem. Intuitive, discoverable, and two steps less (though I think the ENTER step in your feature should not be necessary).

What's your real objection to this Gale?
Is it that you don't think it is useful at all, or that you think it is useful but would prefer a different implementation, such as a right click menu option?

I've no "objection" (there are no regressions introduced) and I have built it now on Windows if anyone wants to try it who doesn't normally build.

I just do not think it is discoverable enough for the general user, and for many who do find it, it will only do the same as menu items we already have (if used correctly for label removal). For example you could argue that it would be more useful from where we are now to make Labels Editor a fully functional editor for easy selection/removal of arbitrary multiple labels.

Since no-one is offering to work on Labels Editor, adding a button to your feature that removes consecutive selected labels makes all the difference to me in thinking it worthwhile. I know we can always add on features later, but that hardly ever seems to happen.

Adding right-click will help discoverability to some extent, so thanks for looking at that. I'm not clear yet - are you going to add to the existing right-click menu that appears when right-clicking over label text?


Gale

[steve]

Most text and word processors don't allow SHIFT + DELETE to do anything. Wouldn't it be more useful to have SHIFT + DELETE delete the label if open for editing?

It seems to be a developer decision to make "Delete+modifier" act the same as "Delete", but I don't know why and I don't know how, or if I'm allowed to change it. It may be for cross-platform compatibility - perhaps Edgar knows?

Should not undo put the cursor back in the label?

I think that would be better, but I don't know if it's possible. It may be worth asking on -devel and if they say that it's possible, then logging it on bugzilla.

What else did you think I was suggesting? This is not an editing feature, as you point out. Track Control Panels have an [X] button to remove themselves.

Currently, all items in track control panels act on the entire track (pan, gain, mute, solo, [X] and all menu items). Adding an item (button) that "edits the track" (changes the selected part of the track) seems to me to be a radical departure, and even more radical if a track control panel button can also affect other tracks as well.

I have suggested Edit Toolbar as a second-best alternative location for a button (and that would do exactly the same as your menu option).

If we are to be consistent with the other buttons, they all duplicate menu items. Cut/Copy/Paste/Trim/... are probably the most used functions when editing, and so justify their screen space (and screen space is high value). I'm not sure that a "Remove Label" button can justify the use of pixels, (unless the toolbar is editable).

We should be thinking of ways to use that space.

IMHO, space in the track control panel is for items that affect the entire track. Allocating tracks to Sync-Locked Track Groups would fit with that definition, but removing selected labels would not.

Good so we agree this is useful for nested labels but only if they don't get "too complex".
...
I bet a lot of people would rather have the [X] on the label stem. Intuitive, discoverable, and two steps less

I agree that we could also do with a quick and easy way to delete single labels - that would resolve your previous example of not deleting the "short" label.

For example you could argue that it would be more useful from where we are now to make Labels Editor a fully functional editor for easy selection/removal of arbitrary multiple labels.

+1 for grater functionality of the label editor.
I'd also like a "Preview" button for each label in the editor that plays the labelled audio.

I know we can always add on features later, but that hardly ever seems to happen.

Sadly that is often true, but I think a large part of that problem is a reluctance to add a new feature that enhances usability if there is already a workaround. The feature that I'm proposing could be seen as a case in point.

Adding right-click will help discoverability to some extent, so thanks for looking at that. I'm not clear yet - are you going to add to the existing right-click menu that appears when right-clicking over label text?

What I'm currently looking at is:

• Right click in the label text adds "Remove Label" to the current menu. This will delete that one (and only one) label, even if it is nested, or nests other labels.
• Right click anywhere else in the label track brings up a menu that provides options* for acting on selected labels (* currently only "Remove Selected Labels", but hopefully can be expanded to provide options for Delete Selected Labels, Copy Selected Labels and Paste Labels). At the moment it looks a bit silly with just one menu item, but I've got a proof of concept working.

This will delete only label "456":

Right Click in label text

remove-label.png (21.43 KiB) Viewed 1516 times

This will delete labels "456" and "Z":

Right Click in label track, not in label text

remove-selected-labels.png (16.28 KiB) Viewed 1516 times

Anticipating a further question: I think we still need the Edit menu item because the context menu is bound to the track menu, so not available for the right click menu.

[Edgar]

Most text and word processors don't allow SHIFT + DELETE to do anything. Wouldn't it be more useful to have SHIFT + DELETE delete the label if open for editing?

It seems to be a developer decision to make "Delete+modifier" act the same as "Delete", but I don't know why and I don't know how, or if I'm allowed to change it. It may be for cross-platform compatibility - perhaps Edgar knows?

My (very vague) recollection is that the modifier keys have been intentionally ignored for the DELETE key; I certainly don't know why that choice was made. I have seen some programs that completely ignore modified DELETE, others (like Audacity) which just throw away the modified state and assume DELETE, on the gripping hand I seem to recall being able to assign shortcuts to modified DELETE in one or two programs (in fact Windows Explorer allows SHIFT+DELETE for icons to be permanently deleted not trashed).

[Gale Andrews]

Most text and word processors don't allow SHIFT + DELETE to do anything. Wouldn't it be more useful to have SHIFT + DELETE delete the label if open for editing?

It seems to be a developer decision to make "Delete+modifier" act the same as "Delete", but I don't know why and I don't know how, or if I'm allowed to change it. It may be for cross-platform compatibility

In TextEdit on Mac OS X, SHIFT + DELETE deletes in the same way as DELETE.

In Gedit on Ubuntu, SHIFT + DELETE does nothing when there is no selection, but does the same as DELETE if there is a selection.

FIle name editing in Explorer on Windows treats SHIFT + DELETE and DELETE as identical.

Audacity may possibly have made the correct overall decision. Probably the correct response is to provide another way to select labels without opening them for editing (perhaps by clicking on the circle or on a new widget, or additionally for region labels, clicking on either stem or outside the label text box). You can select a point label by clicking the stem now, but I guess few people realise that.

What else did you think I was suggesting? This is not an editing feature, as you point out. Track Control Panels have an [X] button to remove themselves.

Currently, all items in track control panels act on the entire track (pan, gain, mute, solo, [X] and all menu items). Adding an item (button) that "edits the track" (changes the selected part of the track) seems to me to be a radical departure, and even more radical if a track control panel button can also affect other tracks as well.

I don't think it should affect other tracks.

I can see the opposition, but I've no doubt it would be the most discoverable solution for this feature, given the apparent expectation that modified DELETE will behave the same as DELETE.

Other than at the other end of the label track, I don't know where else it could go in that track.

I have suggested Edit Toolbar as a second-best alternative location for a button (and that would do exactly the same as your menu option).

I'm not sure that a "Remove Label" button can justify the use of pixels, (unless the toolbar is editable.

I would guess such a button would be used more than Sync-Lock Tracks. It could probably be fitted in the current length by thinning the "empty space" section demarcation in Edit Toolbar, but I agree even that would be space that could be used by another button.

I'd also like a "Preview" button for each label in the editor that plays the labelled audio.

OK I will add that to WIki Feature Requests some time.

I know we can always add on features later, but that hardly ever seems to happen.

Sadly that is often true, but I think a large part of that problem is a reluctance to add a new feature that enhances usability if there is already a workaround. The feature that I'm proposing could be seen as a case in point.

To the extent that there are already workarounds for removing selected labels, that's one reason why I think you should extend this feature with a button and/or right-click.

What I'm currently looking at is:

• Right click in the label text adds "Remove Label" to the current menu. This will delete that one (and only one) label, even if it is nested, or nests other labels.
• Right click anywhere else in the label track brings up a menu that provides options* for acting on selected labels (* currently only "Remove Selected Labels", but hopefully can be expanded to provide options for Delete Selected Labels, Copy Selected Labels and Paste Labels). At the moment it looks a bit silly with just one menu item, but I've got a proof of concept working.

The first one sounds excellent.

Does "Delete Selected Labels" empty and close the label?

Does the copy and paste selected labels only copy fully selected labels, and when pasting, discard the selection region?



Gale

[waxcylinder]

What I'm currently looking at is:

• Right click in the label text adds "Remove Label" to the current menu. This will delete that one (and only one) label, even if it is nested, or nests other labels.
• Right click anywhere else in the label track brings up a menu that provides options* for acting on selected labels (* currently only "Remove Selected Labels", but hopefully can be expanded to provide options for Delete Selected Labels, Copy Selected Labels and Paste Labels). At the moment it looks a bit silly with just one menu item, but I've got a proof of concept working.

The first one sounds excellent.

+ 1 the first one does seem excellent - much better than deleting all the text and then the extra delete to get rid of the label

And the second one looks as though it could have some legs ...

Peter

But I am liking the Edit > Remove Audio or Labels > Split Delete on a region of selected label track (the trick that Gale taught me recently) for deleting a label or multiple labels in the selected range - or better still its keyboard shortcut Ctrl + Alt + K

[steve]

Probably the correct response is to provide another way to select labels without opening them for editing

Throwing in an idea:
Double clicking on an audio clip selects that audio clip, so how about if double clicking within a region label selected the region label?

I'd also like a "Preview" button for each label in the editor that plays the labelled audio.

OK I will add that to WIki Feature Requests some time.

I think Robert has also mentioned that he would like this feature so you can probably add a vote for him.

that's one reason why I think you should extend this feature with a button and/or right-click.

I'm favouring right click over a button.
I'd like to see a lot more use made of right click menus (as would a lot of other users) in which case right click will become commonplace, and for mouse users it's a lot more convenient to right click on the component that you want to act on.

Just a thought about "discover-ability"; If the "Remove Audio or Labels" sub-menu is not sufficiently discoverable, then that is a much greater issue for the (far more commonly used) functions of "Cut", "Delete", Split Cut"....

Does "Delete Selected Labels" empty and close the label?

Does the copy and paste selected labels only copy fully selected labels, and when pasting, discard the selection region?

I'd like to develop this incrementally rather than getting bogged down in trying to do everything at once, but I think it's important to have an idea of where we are going with this from the outset so that the initial steps are on the right path.

Each of these "Selected Label" functions act only on labels - selected Audio, MIDI and Time tracks are ignored.
"Remove Selected Labels" works as per the menu item patch. All labels that are fully within the selected region are removed without affecting other labels.

What I have in mind for the the other functions (open to discussion and could be added to):

• Delete Selected Labels: works like "Delete" but acts only on labels.
• Copy Selected Labels: works like "Copy" but acts only on labels.
• Paste Labels: works like "Paste" but only for labels.

It may also be useful to extend the current "Right click in label text" and replace "Copy" with "Copy Selected Text" and "Copy All Text".
I think that at least "Cut", "Copy", and "Paste" should be renamed "Cut Text", "Copy Text" and "Paste Text".

Thinking ahead to further development of right click menus. I'm not sure that the "Cut / Copy / Paste" label text menu is really in the right place, so I'll look at that.

[Edgar]

Double clicking on an audio clip selects that audio clip, so how about if double clicking within a region label selected the region label?

I've been using something similar to this in my personal build for a couple of years now and find it extremely useful.

[Gale Andrews]

Probably the correct response is to provide another way to select labels without opening them for editing

Throwing in an idea:
Double clicking on an audio clip selects that audio clip, so how about if double clicking within a region label selected the region label?

That would be very intuitive but would mean that you could no longer select the whole label track that way. I don't think that is a big loss since you can do that by clicking on the label track control panel.

It would in some ways be better if single-click in the region label still merely placed the cursor as now, but a widget to select the label would be good too.

I'd also like a "Preview" button for each label in the editor that plays the labelled audio.

OK I will add that to WIki Feature Requests some time.

I think Robert has also mentioned that he would like this feature so you can probably add a vote for him.

OK.

I'm favouring right click over a button.
I'd like to see a lot more use made of right click menus (as would a lot of other users) in which case right click will become commonplace

We have some way to go before it will seem automatic to check if there is a right-click menu in Audacity. In principle I think a button to delete selected labels would be good as well, though less pressing if we have right-click.

Another way to provide a button to delete selected labels would be for it to appear on one of the visible label stems only when there is a selection. It might say [X All] for example.

Just a thought about "discover-ability"; If the "Remove Audio or Labels" sub-menu is not sufficiently discoverable, then that is a much greater issue for the (far more commonly used) functions of "Cut", "Delete", Split Cut"....

Probably not too much of issue, because "Cut" has a button that can also be used for Delete, and there are "Trim" and "Silence" buttons.

What I have in mind for the the other functions (open to discussion and could be added to):

• Delete Selected Labels: works like "Delete" but acts only on labels.
• Copy Selected Labels: works like "Copy" but acts only on labels.
• Paste Labels: works like "Paste" but only for labels.

OK, but I am still unclear on details of how paste would work in practice. In particular we have never addressed that although deleting a label in a label track moves the following labels back, pasting labels at the cursor doesn't move following labels along (unless Sync-Lock Tracks is enabled). This is unexpected given how pasting audio works.

So should there be a "Paste Insert Selected Labels" that moves labels along?

Also what about "Merge Selected Labels"? If touching or overlapping/nested labels are selected, make them into one label. I suppose it would need a dialog to choose the new name and could offer the existing label names.

Also I wonder if it should also operate to merge selected labels that have spaces between them. Joining labels is far too fiddly now, given labels don't snap to each other. I assume we would want an option to "Merge to left" and "Merge to right" which would determine which labels moved.

I think that at least "Cut", "Copy", and "Paste" should be renamed "Cut Text", "Copy Text" and "Paste Text".

+1.


Gale

[steve]

That would be very intuitive but would mean that you could no longer select the whole label track that way. I don't think that is a big loss since you can do that by clicking on the label track control panel.

You could also click in any gap between labels, or after the last label, so there are a few available options for the user to choose, depending on which is more convenient at the time.

We have some way to go before it will seem automatic to check if there is a right-click menu in Audacity

but I think we agree that it is something that we want?

Just a thought about "discover-ability"; If the "Remove Audio or Labels" sub-menu is not sufficiently discoverable, then that is a much greater issue for the (far more commonly used) functions of "Cut", "Delete", Split Cut"....

Probably not too much of issue, because "Cut" has a button that can also be used for Delete, and there are "Trim" and "Silence" buttons.

but not "Split Delete" or "Split Cut", which are still pretty important functions. Fortunately most users seem to be able to find them without needing to ask on the forum.

I am still unclear on details of how paste would work in practice. In particular we have never addressed that although deleting a label in a label track moves the following labels back, pasting labels at the cursor doesn't move following labels along (unless Sync-Lock Tracks is enabled). This is unexpected given how pasting audio works.

So should there be a "Paste Insert Selected Labels" that moves labels along?

The short answer to the first part of the question is "like the existing "Paste" command, but as it is a label track option it works only on labels.
The longer answer, and taking into account your second point - Yes it would probably be better to have two paste commands - one which "pastes over" (as now) and one which "pastes into" (like pasting audio). The exact behaviour will requires some thought regarding exactly how they behave with/without Sync-Lock.

Also what about "Merge Selected Labels"?

+1
and possibly "Split Labels"?
Again I don't have a plan of precisely how these would work, but I like the idea in principle.

I assume we would want an option to "Merge to left" and "Merge to right" which would determine which labels moved.

If we have a simple and convenient way to copy and paste label text, this may not be too much of an issue.
I think that we would need to consider how to make these additional functions accessible through the label editor.

There's clearly a lot of details to work out in implementing the full range of right click label track options, but I think that "Removing" labels is a good place to start.