"Cut Preview" improvements, also an "Uncut Preview"

[Robert J. H.]

I am not much concerned about the actual preview length and their individual definition.

By cursor position is of course not the mouse pointer meant (which is used by the shortcut 1, as far as I know).

My goal is to play all 4 neighbouring regions of the selection.
If I set the preference of "c" such that it plays only 1 s before the left end of the selection, I can adjust the exact position by using c and space alternatingly.
What I am missing are the keys for the right end of the selection.
I could now alter the preferences, such that only one s after the selection is played by c, but that's somewhat cumbersome and I am still not able to listen to the rest of the selection.

When Ctrl-5 can really move the cursor (not only the view), there would be two additional keys be needed:
- play 1 s before cursor (normally the beginning of the selection)
- 1 s after the cursor (can be done by space if the left boundary is in focus)
- Ctrl-5 moves the cursor "virtually" to the right and the mentioned two keys would play in their own right.

I don't know how the play command (space bar) reacts, when Ctrl-5 is pressed previously. I surmize, the selection is still played normally.
It is also thinkable that the new keys would play alternating (one key pressure = before, two = after) and one key for each boundary.

In any case, what I am missing the most at the moment is a command that plays the last seconds of the selection, everything else can be done with c and space (although cumbersome).
At first glance, it is fine when "C" also plays when nothing is selected, but it doesn't work for me, unless I let it only play the region before the cursor. But then I will have to change it back, as soon as I have assigned the right end.
I am sorry, this sounds all very complicated.
In short:
3 keys are needed.

1. play (1) s before position/cursor
2. play 1 s after position/cursor
3. If a region is selected, change boundary in focus (alternating right/left)

I hope it is clearer now.

[Gale Andrews]

CTRL + 5 just scrolls the view so that the right edge of the selection is in the centre of the visible track. There is no cursor when there is a selection, except in so far that you regard the left edge of the selection as the cursor. Pressing SPACE plays from the start of the selection as normally. You still won't be able to play starting from the right edge of the selection without using RIGHT arrow and so destroying the selection.

CTRL + 4 and CTRL + 5 have no effect if there is no selection, other than by default to select all the audio in the project.

what I am missing the most at the moment is a command that plays the last seconds of the selection

OK.

3 keys are needed.

- play (1) s before position/cursor

- play 1 s after position/cursor

OK so in your case what other visually impaired users have requested is I think not what you want. - The others want that "C" (as now) performs continuous playback from before the selection to the left selection edge, then immediately continues playback from the right selection edge. But they also want "C" to play continuously from before the cursor, across it then after it, instead of doing nothing. Playback Preferences would show:

"Play before selection/cursor" [length]
"Play after selection/cursor" [length]

But you want the first of your new shortcuts to stop playback after reaching the left selection edge or after reaching the cursor? And you use your second new shortcut to play after the cursor or after the right selection edge?

If a region is selected, change boundary in focus (alternating right/left)

I am not sure what this does (if it is not CTRL + 4 and CTRL + 5) or how it helps you. I understand "play 1 second before the end of the selection". I think you also may want "play the first 1 second of the selection" for convenience.


Gale

[steve]

I think you also may want "play the first 1 second of the selection" for convenience.

That is already accomplished very easily by pressing the space-bar to start and again to stop. I don't see that we need to add another key binding just to make the second space-bar press unnecessary, however....

3 keys are needed.

1. play (1) s before position/cursor
2. play 1 s after position/cursor
3. If a region is selected, change boundary in focus (alternating right/left)

What seems to be required is that the functionality available to sighted users with the "B" key is made available to blind and other non-mouse users.
The simplest implementation of this that I can think of would be 4 key bindings (possibly the number keys 2, 3, 4 and 5) that play:

• Up to the cursor/left edge of selection,
• From the cursor/right edge of selection,
• From the cursor/left edge of selection,
• Up to the cursor/right edge of selection.

(The "playback cursor" position is used if there is no selection.)

Then perhaps the duration of the playback for keys 1,2,3,4 and 5 could share a preference "Selection Preview Duration" (default 1 second).

[Robert J. H.]

Steve's proposal is quite the thing we need.

I can't see how the continuous playback over the cursor/edge can be of any advantage to VI users.
A compromise would be to introduce a single new key:
- C plays as usual
- The new key plays the inner sections of the selection (first seconds, followed by the last ones).
This would be a huge improvement for longer selections, although I have still to listen to more than I want.
Currently, I have to begin with finding the right edge (lets me use the space bar) and then expand to the left, where I can use "C" and "Space".
For the time being and by employing the "reversed approach" I would vote for the c command that can play when nothing is selected. I would modify the preferences such that it plays only the section before the cursor.
In this way, it would be easy to find firstly the right edge and then the left one (both with "C" and"Space").

[Gale Andrews]

Steve's proposal is quite the thing we need.

Steve's proposal appeared to be

"2" key could be "Play one second centred on (or either side of) the playback cursor".

But then you say:

I can't see how the continuous playback over the cursor/edge can be of any advantage to VI users.

If so, how does Steve's proposal help you?

A compromise would be to introduce a single new key:
- C plays as usual
- The new key plays the inner sections of the selection (first seconds, followed by the last ones).
This would be a huge improvement for longer selections, although I have still to listen to more than I want.

"C plays as usual" doesn't help people who want "C" (when there is no selection) to continuously play the lengths selected in Preferences before and after the cursor. "C" might as well do something when there is no selection, in my view. This can be useful even if you cannot see the cursor, because you can always just press SPACE to hear it.

At the moment I had recorded your vote for all of these:

Four separate keys for:
- play 1s before selection edge/cursor
- play 1s after selection edge/cursor
- play the first 1s of the selection
- play the last 1s of the selection

But do you now want to vote for three separate keys for:
- play 1s before selection edge/cursor
- play 1s after selection edge/cursor
- play the first 1s of the followed by the last 1s of the selection ?

I think the four individual keys are better. Then people can choose to play the first second or last second of the selection separately (they are not continuous audio in any case) or can choose to play only before or only after the cursor.

• If they want to play the first second of the selection followed by the last second for some reason, they press one key then the next.
• If they want to play from before the cursor, across it and then the other side of it, press one key then the next, or use "C" (with its alternative "no selection" behaviour).

If you also want to choose the lengths that these new keys play (instead of being 1s) then that is
another preference. If so I would suggest it also applies to the existing "1" key which plays centred on the mouse pointer.

It may seem that shortcuts for play from the cursor and play from the left edge of the selection are un-necessary, but VI users appear to want them given they cannot see the Timeline or Selection Toolbar.


Gale

[Robert J. H.]

@gayle
That's the proposal I meant:

What seems to be required is that the functionality available to sighted users with the "B" key is made available to blind and other non-mouse users.
The simplest implementation of this that I can think of would be 4 key bindings (possibly the number keys 2, 3, 4 and 5) that play:

• Up to the cursor/left edge of selection,
• From the cursor/right edge of selection,
• From the cursor/left edge of selection,
• Up to the cursor/right edge of selection.

(The "playback cursor" position is used if there is no selection.)

Then perhaps the duration of the playback for keys 1,2,3,4 and 5 could share a preference "Selection Preview Duration" (default 1 second).

It lists key bindings that play up to a position or from there, not across it, which is quite useless to be frank, thus no contradiction to the statement about continuous playing.
Of course, 4 key bindings would be my preferred choice but I could live with other solutions as well.
The best way to understand the difficulty is to try it yourself.
Take for example a click track or a drum loop, turn the monitor off and select precisely one measure only by hearing.
Common sense will tell you soon which keys are missing.
I vote for any solution that improves my fine positioning ability. playing across edges doesn't belong in this category.
The "C" command may be an exception when applied in "nothing selected" cases. I don't see the usefulness though (at least with default values and no cursor indication by a arbitrary pause or click variant).

[Gale Andrews]

@gayle That's the proposal I meant:

The simplest implementation of this that I can think of would be 4 key bindings (possibly the number keys 2, 3, 4 and 5) that play:

• Up to the cursor/left edge of selection,
• From the cursor/right edge of selection,
• From the cursor/left edge of selection,
• Up to the cursor/right edge of selection.

(The "playback cursor" position is used if there is no selection.)

Then perhaps the duration of the playback for keys 1,2,3,4 and 5 could share a preference "Selection Preview Duration" (default 1 second).

Sorry, I saw you had posted last and jumped straight to your post without seeing Steve's

Anyway it seems Steve and I are agreed - I had already added your vote for what he suggested, and repeated what he suggested, all without even reading his post.

The only feeling I have is that 6, 7, 8 and 9 would be better shortcuts. Otherwise, people will be thinking "2" plays two seconds either side of the mouse pointer.


Gale

[Robert J. H.]

Fortunately, the keys can be modified to suit one's needs.
I will probably use F5 to F8, since I have no use for the tool selectors. Or I take "ASDF" in order to have the right hand staying on the arrow keys and ',' and '.'.
Someday, I am going to built my own Audacity keyboard with 256 keys and 5 additional modifier keys...

[steve]

Of course, 4 key bindings would be my preferred choice but I could live with other solutions as well.

The required functionality could certainly be achieved with only 3 new key bindings, but I think it makes ergonomic sense to have the full set of 4, so my vote is for all 4 (though personally I'm more likely to use the "B" short cut, but that is not accessible for blind users).

The only feeling I have is that 6, 7, 8 and 9 would be better shortcuts. Otherwise, people will be thinking "2" plays two seconds either side of the mouse pointer.

The same concern did occur to me when I suggested it, so I'd be happy with "6, 7, 8 and 9".