Converter for Sony microphone (ECM-MS957)

[catorg]

Hello,

I am searching a solution to use my ecm ms957 (sony). I found a "doesnt-go" thread (and i have no other item (like a mini-disc) than audacity on my laptop) but i cannot imagine that nobody wrote a little utility, though this mic is quite beloved.

I understand that the output are addition and substraction of the channels. So this is at least very simple artihmetic.

Does anybody knows where there is such converter or if not a sony-converter hard?

Thanks in advance.

====

Afterwards, please excuse this thread. I had the idea of downloading audacity 1.3.13 and this works now stereo. Thanks to to community.

[kozikowski]

I understand that the output are addition and substraction of the channels. So this is at least very simple arithmetic.

Well, yes, but the way Sony implemented the cables isn't quite so simple. The bottom of the microphone is an XLR5 Male, not XLR3 like a normal microphone, so the first thing you would need is an adapter to split out the Mid and Side into two XLR3s. Then on into two microphone preamplfiers -- Windows laptops only have one, Macs don't have any.

MDs and DATs have two, that's why they plug together so well.

Then, after you got the two signals amplified so they can managed, then you can apply the two signals to a de-matrixer and line driver and then onto the USB SoundCard like this...

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/UCA202.jpg

The electronics wold be in place of the cassette machine in this illustration.

So that's why nobody's whipped up a simple converter for this microphone.

Koz

[waxcylinder]

... the way Sony implemented the cables isn't quite so simple. The bottom of the microphone is an XLR5 Male, not XLR3 like a normal microphone, so the first thing you would need is an adapter to split out the Mid and Side into two XLR3s. Koz

So is this the same "funny" cabling the same on my ECM-MS907, Koz??

It ouputs into a 3.5mm stereo jack, so I'm guessing the wiring and the L/R orientation are all ok - but any insights you have would be useful and interesting.

WC

[steve]

According to the Instruction/Operation Manual for the ECM-MS957
the microphone has a stereo mini-jack plug and has a switch for selecting between 90 and 120 degree pick-up patterns.
I assume from the presence of this switch that the sum-and-difference matrix for decoding the mid-side stereo is built into the microphone and the output uses "conventional" stereo mini-jack wiring (right / left to tip / ring and common/earth to sleeve).

Although computer sound cards usually have stereo mini-jack connectors for the microphone input, they are not wired as "conventional" stereo mini-jack sockets.
Typical computer microphones are mono and require a power supply, so the computer mic socket supplies power on one contact and uses the other two contacts for signal (mono) and earth.

The ECM-MS957 is battery powered so it does not require the power connector, but instead it requires a stereo input. Basically this microphone is incompatible with a standard computer microphone input.

It ouputs into a 3.5mm stereo jack, so I'm guessing the wiring and the L/R orientation are all ok - but any insights you have would be useful and interesting.

If the recording sounds like stereo, then the mid-side stereo has been decoded.
Before it is decoded mid-side recording don't sound like stereo.
Decoding is just a matter of splitting the "side" recording (from a figure of 8 microphone) into left / right channels and inverting one side, then mixing in some of the "mid" (usually a cardioid mic) recording. This gives "Mid + Side" in one channel and "Mid - Side" in the other and (by magic) it sounds like stereo.

[sciurius]

Decoding is just a matter of splitting the "side" recording (from a figure of 8 microphone) into left / right channels and inverting one side, then mixing in some of the "mid" (usually a cardioid mic) recording. This gives "Mid + Side" in one channel and "Mid - Side" in the other and (by magic) it sounds like stereo.

Although this is straightforward to do occasionally, it quickly becomes a pain when it has to be done maually for each and every recording. II use a Zoom H2n that produces MS + XY so it's a lot of track fiddling before the mix can be made.
I was quite surprised to find no plugins to help decoding mid-side tracks. Did I overlook something?

[steve]

Decoding is just a matter of splitting the "side" recording (from a figure of 8 microphone) into left / right channels and inverting one side, then mixing in some of the "mid" (usually a cardioid mic) recording. This gives "Mid + Side" in one channel and "Mid - Side" in the other and (by magic) it sounds like stereo.

Although this is straightforward to do occasionally, it quickly becomes a pain when it has to be done maually for each and every recording. II use a Zoom H2n that produces MS + XY so it's a lot of track fiddling before the mix can be made.
I was quite surprised to find no plugins to help decoding mid-side tracks. Did I overlook something?

Devices that produce M/S files are quite unusual.
There is a "Channel Mixer" plug-in that can be used to convert M/S into normal stereo. It does not have any presets for M/S stereo because I do not have any M/S stereo recordings to test it on. If you could send me a good "RAW M/S" file then I can probably add some presets.

[sciurius]

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply.

Some suitable presets, according to litterature, are:

wide ( 150⁰, S = +6dB)
normal ( 120⁰, S = 0 dB )
small ( 60⁰, S = -9 dB )
mono ( only MID )

Would it be possible for the plug-in to select a preset, have the settings copied to the sliders, and then modify the sliders to get the desired effect?

[steve]

Some suitable presets, according to litterature, are:

wide ( 150⁰, S = +6dB)
normal ( 120⁰, S = 0 dB )
small ( 60⁰, S = -9 dB )
mono ( only MID )

Thanks, I'd have guessed values around those figures, though for use in Audacity it may actually work out better to reduce the mono a bit for the wide settings so as to avoid clipping. Would it be possible for you to upload a good quality M/S recording somewhere on the Internet (for example "sendspace.com") and post a link to it here on the forum? I'd then be able to test it out rather than relying on the theory.

Would it be possible for the plug-in to select a preset, have the settings copied to the sliders, and then modify the sliders to get the desired effect?

Unfortunately not. Nyquist plug-ins do not support any kind of interactive control. The plug-in does however display the settings used after processing if you use the "Debug" button rather than the "OK" button. You can then use those figures as a guide.

[sciurius]

The values are also the 'suggested presets' used by the H2n.

I think for a good mix the difference between the mid and side channels matter. Just adding 6dB of side would easily lead to clipping.

I'm at a concert today and I will try to make some MS recordings to play with. PM me your mail address and I'll send you a link when I finish uploading (expect them no sooner than 21.00 UTC).

[steve]

I'm at a concert today and I will try to make some MS recordings to play with

I look forward to it.
Just PM me the link if you don't want to post it publicly. I check my PMs more regularly than my e-mails.