Hi, I have 2 questions!!

[DickLaurentIsDead]

I have Vista, and my questions pertain to recording vinyl: turntable>>pre-amp>>laptop.

1. When recording I need to slide the input volume pretty much all the way to zero, otherwise it will record too loud (both quiet and loud music). Is this normal? Is there some volume level somewhere that might be set too high? If so, I can't find it.
2. When I playback a sample recording, a quiet ringing type noise starts once the needle hits the record. What could be causing this?

---The table is grounded correctly, and this ringing sound is not heard on my normal set-up.
Any ideas?


Thanks.

[kozikowski]

This failure is usually produced by the connection to the laptop. You can't connect this kind of service to the Mic-In of the laptop. Some laptops have the ability to switch one connection between mono Mic-In and Stereo Line-In, but most don't. We have one laptop that actually has a blue Stereo Line-In connection. That would work fine if you have one of those.

For the rest of us, you may need a UCA-202 or equivalent.

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/UCA202.jpg

Koz

[kozikowski]

Configure your system correctly before you ask any further questions. The audio mis-match you have could be causing multiple sound problems. It's pretty serious.

Koz

[DickLaurentIsDead]

Yeah, I use the line-in with stereo.
I do not use the mic.

[steve]

When recording I need to slide the input volume pretty much all the way to zero, otherwise it will record too loud (both quiet and loud music). Is this normal?

No it's not "normal", but it's probably "normal for Vista" (and Windows 7). According to many users on this forum, these two operating systems frequently require the input level to be set extremely low. In some cases it may be possible to set the input device as a "Line -in" device (probably in the advanced properties) rather than a "mic-in" device, though there's no guarantee that such a setting is available. If there is such an option it will be in
"Windows Start menu > Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound"
then right click on the recording device that you are using and have a poke around in the device properties.

Unfortunately the exact options seem to vary from one machine to another, so if you manage to find a solution on your computer, please post details of exactly what you changed and where you found it - the best that we can offer without seeing your machine is just a rough guide of where to look.

When I playback a sample recording, a quiet ringing type noise starts once the needle hits the record. What could be causing this?

You may have the default recording device set to "stereo mix" rather than the the specific input that you are using.

If your computer has a dedicated "Line input" (common on full size computers but very rare on laptop PCs) then you should use that.
If your computer has only a Mic (microphone) input (common on laptop PCs), then you may be able to use that, but the recording level may be far too high (hence problem number 1).

The settings in Audacity "Edit menu > Preferences > Devices" should be set to match the settings in the Windows Control Panel.

The "Recording Quality" settings in the Windows Control Panel should be set to "16 bit 44100 Hz stereo CD Quality".
The "Quality" settings in Audacity "Edit menu > Preferences > Quality" should be set to "32-bit (float)" and "44100 Hz".

[Shaky]

When recording I need to slide the input volume pretty much all the way to zero, otherwise it will record too loud (both quiet and loud music). Is this normal?

No it's not "normal", but it's probably "normal for Vista" (and Windows 7). According to many users on this forum, these two operating systems frequently require the input level to be set extremely low. In some cases it may be possible to set the input device as a "Line -in" device

I don’t wish to hijack this thread but I find this very interesting.

I have recently restarted the significant task of ripping my more desirable vinyl, and bought a (Pro-ject) preamp for that purpose.

But under Windows 7 x64 I am experiencing exactly the same issue, and to my surprise find I have to turn down both the sound card line in and Audacity input faders quite significantly.

This raises 2 questions: a) Is it no longer necessary/desirable to use a preamp and b) does it make any difference to recording quality whether you reduce the source output or the Audacity input levels?

[kozikowski]

This raises 2 questions: a) Is it no longer necessary/desirable to use a preamp and

The Phono Preamplifier's job is to remove the normal, intentional RIAA Vinyl Distortion from the show. Vinyl audio is not clear and perfect until corrected. It does not just make the show louder. Yes, you need one, or something that acts like one.

I bought one that had a volume control on it and that went a long way to getting the levels right in a vinyl capture.

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html

I'm preparing an illustration for this, but Windows machines dropped the idea of being Entertainment Devices a while back. They are designed now for business and communications services. If your vinyl capture works at all, it's something of an accident. Modern Windows comes out of the box set up for Windows Live Messaging and Skype, not recording your guitar and vinyl records.

To get good quality transfers, I would not be using the built-in Windows sound services, although sometimes you can force them to work. You can either use an external digitizer like the UCA-202 we frequently recommend...

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/UCA202.jpg

... or borrow somebody's Mac.

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/MacLine-In.jpg

Either solution will work around the oddball Windows sound card issues (you still need your preamp in each case. Cassette sound does not need correcting).

Koz

[steve]

This raises 2 questions: a) Is it no longer necessary/desirable to use a preamp and b) does it make any difference to recording quality whether you reduce the source output or the Audacity input levels?

I can see exactly how you arrive at these questions, but they're not the right questions.

When recording from vinyl, the pre-amp does a lot more than boost the signal. The most important job that it performs is to "equalize" the frequency content.
In order to fit the waveform into the groove on the vinyl, the bass frequencies are made very much smaller than equivalent amplitude high frequencies. If this was not done, then the bass frequencies would rip the stylus off its mounting and send the tone arm skidding across the record.
Because the bass frequencies are made so small, if you play a record without the necessary (RIAA) equalization, it will sound extremely tinny with very little bass. The main job of a phono pre-amp is to apply the necessary RIAA equalization so that the bass frequencies are amplified a lot more than the treble frequencies, compensating for the equalization that was used in making the record.

Phono pre-amps will also boost the signal to approximately "line level". This is considerably higher than the signal level of a microphone, but is well suited for use in audio circuits. In the audio world, most of the work done with audio signals is done at approximately "line level". In professional audio, when using microphones, the first thing that is done is to amplify the microphone signal up to line level, and then all subsequent processing is done at this higher level.

So the "correct" questions would be:
1) Why does Vista/Win 7 assume that any input is a microphone?
A) Because Windows is increasingly orientated toward business and general consumer use and there is little interest in providing support for "specialist" applications such as recording. It is assumed that if you are plugging something into the audio input, then it's either a microphone for Skype/voip, or a microphone for voice recognition software, or a microphone for video conferencing (etc.).

2) What sort of audio hardware do I need for good quality recording from vinyl?
A) If you're using a phono pre-amp, then you really need an audio device (sound card) that has a good quality line-level input.
Alternatively, there are phono pre-amps that include the necessary analogue-to-digital conversion hardware and connect to the computer via a USB connection. This method bypasses the computers internal sound card.
Option 3, use a USB turntable. These devices include both the phono pre-amp and analogue-to-digital converters, though often the actual record player parts are not as good as conventional turntables.

Note: Even with a USB device, Vista/Windows 7 may try to configure the device as a microphone. In such cases it should be possible to set the "properties" of the USB device (in the Windows Control Panel) so that it records correctly as a stereo line level device.

[Shaky]

Thanks very much for the very detailed replies guys. They are at once helpful and disconcerting, but since I am at any early stage of my ripping project I am eager to get the process right asap.

My current setup is record deck --> Pro-ject preamp-->Asus Xonar D2 Line in-->Audacity with Asus Line in selected in recording devices.

As I understand it this should allow Audacity to get the raw output direct from the Xonar A/D Converter which is supposed to be pretty good.

It there anything I am missing or can improve upon? For example, would it improve results to put the Xonar sound card into a Ubuntu box?

Again many thanks for your help.

[steve]

My current setup is record deck --> Pro-ject preamp-->Asus Xonar D2 Line in-->Audacity with Asus Line in selected in recording devices.

That should work very well.
As for getting the best out of the card I'd recommend that you check out the Asus Xonar D2 forum: http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?bo ... uage=en-us
(we can't be experts about everything, but we'd be interested to hear what you can find out. When you've sorted out all the ins and outs of the Xonar it would be great if you could post a sound card review).