PreSonus FP10 records at a max of half-volume in Audacity

[Kizzume]

I'm having the same exact problem I was having with the Delta 66. Audacity will not record at more than half volume at maximum.

XP sp3, pentium4 3.2ghz, Geforce 9800GT, 2gb ram, PreSonus FP10

Is there some sort of setting I'm not seeing somewhere in Audacity?

[steve]

Is there some sort of setting I'm not seeing somewhere in Audacity?

I don't think so.
There is a recording level slider on the main Audacity window. If you adjust this the Audacity will attempt to adjust the recording level on the sound card (if the sound card supports it), but any adjustment on the sound card will override that slider. Audacity really is a slave to the data that is sent to it. Also, did you not say that the same thing happens with sound recorder? Audacity has no connection at all with sound recorder, so you can blow up Audacity or turn it inside out and sound recorder will know nothing about it.

Does your computer have an on-board sound card? If so, have you tried recording with that to see what happens?

Have you tried different bit depths?

For clarity, could you give a run down in this thread of your set-up. I'd like to ask one of the developers to take a look at this, so it would be useful if we could have all the information in one topic. I know it's a bind, but all version numbers, model numbers, settings.... Who know, just getting all the information in one place may suddenly make the answer jump out as if it were obvious all along.

[Kizzume]

Microsoft Windows XP
Professional
Version 2002
Service Pack 3

Intel (R)
Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz
3.21 GHz, 2.00 GB of RAM
Physical Address Extension

-------------------------

(Ugh--previously I gave the video card of my other machine)---this one has
nVidia GeForce 7300 GT

CTL 220UW monitor
Realsync PF77-BK monitor

---------------------------

PreSonus FP10 Driver Version 2.46.0.0

Sterling Audio ST55 condenser mic

---------------------------

3 320gb Seagate IDE drives

--------------------------

McAfee Antivirus Enterprise 8.5.0i

SpyBot Search and Destroy 1.6.2


--------------------------

Audacity 1.3.9

[steve]

I have e-mailed one of the developers to ask if he can take a look.
While we are waiting, could you try the latest "nightly" version that is available here: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php? ... s_Binaries

Delete or rename your "audacity.cfg" file before installing the new version.
( Documents and Settings<user name>Application DataAudacityaudacity.cfg - it is a hidden file, so you need to enable hidden files when you look for it)

[Kizzume]

Well, I think I've inadvertently figured out the problem:

Testing this new version right away without changing settings, it was perfect, but that's when recording in stereo. As soon as I switch it to mono, it's back to recording at half volume.

[Gale Andrews]

Well, I think I've inadvertently figured out the problem:

Testing this new version right away without changing settings, it was perfect, but that's when recording in stereo. As soon as I switch it to mono, it's back to recording at half volume.

Hi, Do you mean changing the recording channels to "2" on the Devices tab of 1.3.10 Alpha makes this difference? You were recording in mono in your image recording with the Delta where the level maxed out at 0.5. Are you sending a stereo or mono signal from the sound card? The behaviour when your sound device sends a stereo signal and the software requests mono depends on the card. Cheap devices will typically give you a mono mix at the same level. Higher end devices will more likely just give you one channel (usually left) but I wouldn't expect a level change.

Does switching the host on that tab between MME and DirectSound on the same Audacity preferences tab affect the recording level?

The M-Audio technician seemed to claim that the Delta 66 with "latest version of Audacity" and the 5069v3 driver did not exhibit this problem. Obviously your ST55 mic requires phantom power and I assume you have switched that on in the FP10. You seem to have the latest FP10 drivers.

I cannot really think of anything that has changed between 1.3.9 and 1.3.10 Alpha that would cause a behaviour change. If sending mono/recording mono still produces half level, then although it's not a high quality solution, you could experiment by connecting the headphones out of the FP to line-in on your motherboard sound device and recording that.

I would like to add in response to the comments about Audacity being a "slave to the sound card" that it is "supposed" to control the input level directly on the hardware for devices recognised in the Windows system mixer (i.e. changing the input level in Audacity should do so on the slider in the system mixer). Similarly the output slider operates directly on the playback hardware. This has always been true for me with inexpensive USB sound cards. We know the Audacity and system mixer sliders operate independently on Vista and WIndows 7, which we're trying to fix. High-end USB and Firewire interfaces may behave differently (clearly the Delta doesn't work with the system mixer.

We *are* a slave to the PortAudio Audio I/O interface we use, and the external/PCI devices that work/don't work with Audacity can change according to the version of PortAudio we use (in Beta versions of Audacity we update the PortAudio version regularly).


Gale

[Kizzume]

Nothing has changed between versions. I just simply found out that the problem only occurs when recording mono, with one channel. It makes no difference between using MME or DirectSound.

What I noticed is that the M-Audio technician posted a screenshot of recording in STEREO--I'm positive he would have gotten the same result I did, half volume, had he have recorded using only one channel.

[Gale Andrews]

Nothing has changed between versions. I just simply found out that the problem only occurs when recording mono, with one channel. It makes no difference between using MME or DirectSound.

What I noticed is that the M-Audio technician posted a screenshot of recording in STEREO--I'm positive he would have gotten the same result I did, half volume, had he have recorded using only one channel.

OK, thanks, I will assume then the change was in setting Audacity to record in stereo, but you haven't said:

a) whether you are sending mono or stereo from the firepod
b) what happens if you record by cabling from headphones out of the Firepod to line-in of the motherboard sound device. You just need an appropriate 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch cable. Knowing that result would eliminate some possibilities, if you have the ability to test that.

I'm not assuming an Audacity bug yet, given sndrec32 has the same issue. Were you recording in stereo in Cubase and ProTools when they did not have the problem?


Thanks

Gale

[Kizzume]

Nothing has changed between versions. I just simply found out that the problem only occurs when recording mono, with one channel. It makes no difference between using MME or DirectSound.

What I noticed is that the M-Audio technician posted a screenshot of recording in STEREO--I'm positive he would have gotten the same result I did, half volume, had he have recorded using only one channel.

OK, thanks, I will assume then the change was in setting Audacity to record in stereo, but you haven't said:

a) whether you are sending mono or stereo from the firepod
b) what happens if you record by cabling from headphones out of the Firepod to line-in of the motherboard sound device. You just need an appropriate 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch cable. Knowing that result would eliminate some possibilities, if you have the ability to test that.

I'm not assuming an Audacity bug yet, given sndrec32 has the same issue. Were you recording in stereo in Cubase and ProTools when they did not have the problem?


Thanks

Gale

The Firepod hardware itself is not what decides if is in "stereo mode". The hardware simply knows it's channel 1, channel 2, channel 3, etc. Channel 1&2 are grouped together via the drivers to record in stereo. It is exactly the same case with the Delta 66. Here is a visual example:



I was recording in Cubase, ProTools, and Renoise (and in Renoise using both ASIO and DirectSound) using just one channel, in mono. Sndrec32 does exactly the same thing as Audacity does--record in mono and it's half volume, record in stereo and it's full volume.

Thanks.

[Kizzume]

Alright---this was a "duh" moment for me.

Here's what the problem is:

Programs like Renoise, ProTools, Cubase, etc., can handle inputs INDIVIDUALLY. Audacity does not. Audacity handles "mono" as a cross between both channels, it does not give one the choice to select only one of those channels. The reason why it is at half volume is that if both channels were recording at full volume and it did NOT count each channel as half-volume, it would cause distortion.

The workaround is to record in stereo, split the channel into two, delete the empty channel, and convert the left side to mono.

The actual fix is simple: Audacity needs an option to record single channels instead of automatically grouping them together.