problem opening stored project

[nyleseabright]

This is my first use and obviously something is wrong. I loaded two audio files from a zoom H2 recorder, which has two microphones, both recording in stereo. These entered the system as 20 minute tracks, which I listened to and saved on the hard drive as audacity projects -- two .aup files with about 100k each and two associated data folders each containing 5.17mb, 440 files each. Then I wiped the data content in the H2 memory chip so that it could be used in another recording session.

Returning to Audacity, I opened one of the two .aup files from its hard drive location, which displayed on the screen as the two tracks with associated waveforms. Then I clicked PLAY and got this error message:

Audacity.exe -- no disc
There is no disc in the drive. Please insert a disc into drive F
Cancel/try again/Continue

Clicking any of the lower row of options within this error message box does nothing -- they generate an audible warning but otherwise do not function. The X at the upper right of the error message box also fails to produce a result, also with an audible warning. To get rid of the error message box I need to go to Control/Alt/Delete to shut down Audacity.

I tried exporting the file to Vox Orbis and opening in an appropriate player and the file displays no content. Same with WAV export.

It seems like the data folders are not associating with the .aup files. It also seems like the error message box is buggy as hell.

What is wrong here? Is the recording lost? The associated data folders for the two microphones saved through Audacity show over 400 files in each folder . Can any of this be retrieved?

I read through everything in your online help section and there was nothing that I could find related to any of this . Help! and Thanks!

[steve]

Have you recorded anything else onto the H2 yet? If not - don't.

My guess is that you have not got Audacity set to make copies of imported audio files, so it is expecting to find the data in the original location (drive F - which I assume was your H2). If this is the case, then your only chance of recovering the recordings is by using a data recovery tool such as "Bad Copy Pro" on your Zoom.

If you do not have Bad Copy Pro, you can either buy it, or use an alternative data recovery tool (there are some free ones available from MajorGeeks.com ). Do not be tempted to try using a cracked version of Bad Copy Pro - there are many cracked versions being distributed (illegally) on the internet that contain viruses and other malware.

and two associated data folders each containing 5.17mb, 440 files each

CD quality stereo audio uses around 10MB per minute.

[nyleseabright]

The H2 records on a 512 mb SD chip, which was full. Audacity read that and loaded it into the system and I listened to each track. There were no issues. I then saved the projects (two microphones, separate project each) to the hard drive, in the Audacity file format, which is compressed (if you work for Audacity you should know that).

I think this is an audacity software bug, at the least, due to the computer freezup that happens with the dysfunctional error message box. Someone from Audacity should admit this is an error and fix it.

It's also a serious user interface defect if I can store a finished project on my hard drive in such a way that Audacity cannot retrieve the compressed data files, even though they are in the same folder as the .aup files. That's the real issue -- Audacity has stored files in a way that it cannot recognize and use. Which is a serious software defect.

How do I get a serious answer to these serious questions?

[kozikowski]

<<<Audacity read that and loaded it into the system and I listened to each track.>>>

No it didn't. Audacity created a Project which is a management file (AUP) that pointed to the tracks on your Zoom. When the Zoom vanished, so did your show. The blue waves are created by two graphics files and don't always track the show -- especially if something goes wrong.

<<<I think this is an audacity software bug, at the least>>>

No, it's not. A bug is unintentional software behavior. This was designed specifically and intentionally to work this way.

<<<It's also a serious user interface defect>>>

I've said that multiple times.

<<<How do I get a serious answer to these serious questions?>>>

I'm cross posting this in the serious forum.

Koz

[steve]

I then saved the projects (two microphones, separate project each) to the hard drive, in the Audacity file format, which is compressed (if you work for Audacity you should know that).

Nobody "works" (in the sense of paid employment) for Audacity. The developers, testers, documentation authors, translators, and forum elves are all volunteers.

Audacity does not compress the audio when you save a project. The data is saved as uncompressed data fragments in the data folder as lots of small files. However there is an option in the Audacity Preferences (Edit menu > Preferences > File Formats) to "Read directly from the original file (faster)". If this option is selected, then Audacity does not copy the data when you Save the project, but depends on it being available in the original location. To make Audacity copy the data you need to set this option to: "Make a copy of the file before editing (safer)".

There are a lot of things that can go wrong with an Audacity Project (particularly with Audacity 1.2 - the 1.3 projects tend to be more robust) so we always recommend that tracks are Exported as WAV files at the earliest opportunity as backup copies. This is especially true if you have "once in a lifetime" recordings.

Audacity 1.2.6 is rather old now and there have been a huge number of improvements made in Audacity 1.3 (the current version is 1.3.8).
Although this is still listed as the "beta" version, we generally recommend that people use this version rather than the old 1.2.6 version as it is so much better in so many ways. However, having said that, it is still a beta version, but a very late beta and runs in a stable manner for the vast majority of users. Personally I think that the website should now be recommending the 1.3 version for all users (it would save so many of the problems that we see on the forum) but the developers do not want to do that until Audacity 2.0 is released later this year.

[nyleseabright]

1.

I think this is an audacity software bug, at the least, due to the computer freezup that happens with the dysfunctional error message box. Someone from Audacity should admit this is an error and fix it.

This was my original statement about dysfunctionality. You edited out the inconvenient part about the error message freezing my computer and not working. That is a bug. Has it been fixed in the later versions? If so, it would have been more helpful to let me know that.

2. So about the project folders that Audacity stored as data folders alongside the .aup project files, each at 5+ megs containing 440 individual files each. What are those? Each has a numeric name followed by .auf. If it's not my original data in a compressed format, why does it require 880 files?

3. If in fact Audacity saved only part of the data required for reopening the project, shouldn't there have been at least a warning asking whether or not I wanted to save the original raw data to the hard drive? It's definitely a bad user interface design to permit the project to be stored incompletely, without letting the user know that. The extra programming required to create this kind of prompt would have been so minimal. Don't any of you ever do basic UI review?

4. I certainly missed the point about exporting to WAV as an urgent backup. Again, it would make sense to have a UI prompt query on whether the system should do that. I get this kind of prompt from all of the graphics software that I use -- it seems like industry standard for creative workspace software.

5. If the version that is called stable and recommended for download is really full of unfixed bugs and obsolete, you are creating unnecessary ill will. In terms of unnecessarily lost work and general aggravation, I certainly got far less than I paid for here.

6. Where do I look for the crossposted serious answers?

7. You originally told me to buy Bad Copy Pro, now you're saying the project is lost and irretrievable. Which is it?

[steve]

In terms of unnecessarily lost work and general aggravation, I certainly got far less than I paid for here.

Audacity is free. If you don't like it, don't use it.

2. So about the project folders that Audacity stored as data folders alongside the .aup project files, each at 5+ megs containing 440 individual files each. What are those? Each has a numeric name followed by .auf. If it's not my original data in a compressed format, why does it require 880 files?

Audacity uses data files to store the waveform display, undo files, and various other things. The undo files are deleted when you close Audacity (which saves an enormous amount of disk space, but I would like to see a user option that allowed them to be kept). I have not done an in-depth study of this so I cannot tell you exactly what is stored where, but audio data is stored in .au files.

If in fact Audacity saved only part of the data required for reopening the project, shouldn't there have been at least a warning asking whether or not I wanted to save the original raw data to the hard drive?

There are many additional warnings and dialogues to help the user in the 1.3 version of Audacity, though it would appear that many users cancel these immediately and ask not to be reminded before they have read and understood the message.

A typical example of this is that when you "Save" an Audacity project, there is now a pop-up that informs the user:

You are saving an Audacity project file (.aup)
Saving a project creates a file that only Audacity can open.
To save an audio file for other programs, use one of the "File > Export" commands.

and then there is a check box for "Don't show this warning again".
However we still see lots of questions about "why can't Windows Media Player play my project?"
If you have any ideas about better ways of communicating basic, but important information like this to users I'm sure the developers would be interested.

Getting back to your question, this is the dialogue that pops up in Audacity 1.3.7 when you save a project that is using files that lie outside of the Audacity Project:

screenshot.png (35.42 KiB) Viewed 850 times

I certainly missed the point about exporting to WAV as an urgent backup. Again, it would make sense to have a UI prompt query on whether the system should do that. I get this kind of prompt from all of the graphics software that I use -- it seems like industry standard for creative workspace software.

Keeping backups is an important part of ALL computer work, and a part that is so often neglected until it is too late. (ever had a hard disk die on you?)

Audacity 1.2.6 was very stable on Windows XP, which was the dominant operating system at the time it was written, and also very stable on Win98 SE which was also widely used. Vista had only just been released at the time that the final version of Audacity 1.2.x was published. Vista64 was unheard of (not to mention Windows 7).

The use of Laptop computers, RealTek HD integrated audio chips, and many other hardware options were also uncommon or not yet invented.
In the development of Audacity (through the various beta versions) support for modern hardware and operating systems has been continuously added, not just for Windows, but for Mac and Linux too.

Audacity 1.3 beta has been under development for about 4 years and is due to be released as the new stable release (Audacity 2.0) later this year.

You originally told me to buy Bad Copy Pro, now you're saying the project is lost and irretrievable. Which is it?

I didn't tell you to buy Bad Copy Pro. I said that you may be able to recover the original recordings from your H2 using a data recovery program such as Bad Copy Pro, and that other data recovery programs (some free) are also available. I also said that this may be an option as long as you have not recorded onto the H2 since wiping the flash card. It is by no means guaranteed that this will work, but I recently rescued 30GB of video that had been erased from a camcorder using similar methods.

[nyleseabright]

Thanks.

[steve]

You're welcome. Good luck with data recovery, you will probably need it, but there IS a chance there.