PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

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SndChaser
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PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by SndChaser » Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm

There has been a Push Request submitted to add telemetry to Audacity. PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/835

While there appears to be some narrow justification for this addition, there are many concerns around the implementation of such a proposal as it would expose personally identifying information (the user's IP address) to Google and Yandex. There has also been no proposal put forward as to how this information would be administered, who would have access to it, or an set of policies that would be put in place to handle this information in an appropriate manner.

Despite over 2800 downvotes on this PR, and over 600 comments, many of them critical and offering constructive suggestions or ideas as to how to approach implementing some information gathering that would fill the needs of the development team while safeguarding user information, the response has been less than adequate.

I felt it was important to make certain that the Audacity user base in this forum be made aware of this information so they can add their voices (either way) to this issue.

steve
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by steve » Sat May 08, 2021 12:03 pm

Thank you for your feedback. Yes we're aware of the feedback to that pull request and I have seen that it includes a few constructive suggestions.
I have personally read every comment and shall take them into consideration when I do my QA review, if the pull request is merged.
SndChaser wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm
Despite over 2800 downvotes
Wow, that's considerably more developers than have ever contributed to Audacity over it's entire 20+ year history. Just imagine what could have been accomplished had they contributed to Audacity previously.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

SndChaser
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by SndChaser » Sat May 08, 2021 10:07 pm

steve wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:03 pm
Wow, that's considerably more developers than have ever contributed to Audacity over it's entire 20+ year history. Just imagine what could have been accomplished had they contributed to Audacity previously.
Well, certainly not only developers should be commenting on this PR. I have 25+ years in IT Infrastructure, and have worked closely with many people in IT Security / InfoSec, Developers, QA and Testing.

But certainly, any individual who respectfully submits their serious concerns about privacy policies, data retention, and the administration of such a system has a valid point of view that should be considered. These kinds of views do not deserve condescending comments.

jahway603
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by jahway603 » Sun May 09, 2021 2:56 am

steve wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:03 pm
Thank you for your feedback. Yes we're aware of the feedback to that pull request and I have seen that it includes a few constructive suggestions.
I have personally read every comment and shall take them into consideration when I do my QA review, if the pull request is merged.
SndChaser wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm
Despite over 2800 downvotes
Wow, that's considerably more developers than have ever contributed to Audacity over it's entire 20+ year history. Just imagine what could have been accomplished had they contributed to Audacity previously.
So now since some of us are NOT developers then our opinions (as users and other professions) don't count. So now you're planning on ruining Audacity, a piece of software I've enjoyed for well over a decade, with unnecessary, unneeded, and unwanted (by your user base) telemetry because you don't value anyone else's opinion but your own? How is is this a good solution if you're doing the OPPOSITE of what your users want?

waxcylinder
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by waxcylinder » Sun May 09, 2021 8:57 am

jahway603 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:56 am
steve wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:03 pm
Thank you for your feedback. Yes we're aware of the feedback to that pull request and I have seen that it includes a few constructive suggestions.
I have personally read every comment and shall take them into consideration when I do my QA review, if the pull request is merged.
SndChaser wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:58 pm
Despite over 2800 downvotes
Wow, that's considerably more developers than have ever contributed to Audacity over it's entire 20+ year history. Just imagine what could have been accomplished had they contributed to Audacity previously.
So now since some of us are NOT developers then our opinions (as users and other professions) don't count. ...
If you had been active on this Forum over the past years you would notice that we pay a great deal of attention to the opinions, needs and wants of our users. Not everything that every user wants can be done (some are too niche, some are impossible to do - and some require a lot more effort than our previous limited volunteer manpower could achieve). But history shows that we do do listen to users and do act where we can and when it is sensible to do so

jahway603 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:56 am
So now you're planning on ruining Audacity, a piece of software I've enjoyed for well over a decade, with unnecessary, unneeded, and unwanted (by your user base) telemetry because you don't value anyone else's opinion but your own? How is is this a good solution if you're doing the OPPOSITE of what your users want?
No user will have to have telemetry Analytics:
a) it will be entirely optional
b) there will only be the one splash dialog requesting permission for Analytics
c) if you turn it on there and later change your mind you will be able to subsequently turn it off in Preferences>Analytics

If you use the command Tools > Reset Configuration that resets Audacity to OOTB factory default preferences settings including turning off telemetry Analytics.

The intention is not to "ruin Audacity" - but quite the opposite - the developers want to use the metrics to help improve the app.
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * FAQ * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Audacity Manual * * * * *

gregaras
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by gregaras » Sun May 09, 2021 9:47 am

waxcylinder wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:57 am
The intention is not to "ruin Audacity" - but quite the opposite - the developers want to use the metrics to help improve the app.
A lot of people in Github PR comments suggested at least not to use Google and Yandex to do telemetry.

steve
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by steve » Sun May 09, 2021 12:34 pm

gregaras wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:47 am
A lot of people in Github PR comments suggested at least not to use Google and Yandex to do telemetry.
Yes, that has been stated many many times on GitHub. It is superfluous to say it again here.

Please note that this forum is primarily intended as a help forum to enable people to record / edit audio effectively.
Please also note that as the administrator of this forum, my job is to ensure a safe and helpful forum for the benefit of Audacity users. Many of the posts on GitHub that your refer to, are well below the standard of civil discourse that are expected on this forum and will not be tolerated under my watch.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

jahway603
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by jahway603 » Sun May 09, 2021 1:28 pm

steve wrote:
>
gregaras wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:47 am
> A lot of people in Github PR comments suggested at least not to use Google
> and Yandex to do telemetry.
>
> Yes, that has been stated many many times on GitHub. It is superfluous to
> say it again here.
>
> Please note that this forum is primarily intended as a help forum to enable
> people to record / edit audio effectively.
> Please also note that as the administrator of this forum, my job is to
> ensure a safe and helpful forum for the benefit of Audacity users. Many of
> the posts on GitHub that your refer to, are well below the standard of
> civil discourse that are expected on this forum and will not be tolerated
> under my watch.

None of you are listening to the user concerns on Github, so now the users are voicing their concerns here on the forum. Please don't add Telemetry to this amazing application. You think you're trying to "improve it" when the reality is that you are destroying it.

steve
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by steve » Sun May 09, 2021 3:01 pm

jahway603 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:28 pm
None of you are listening to the user concerns on Github,
That is not correct. All of the comments have been read by members of the Audacity team. I spent several hours yesterday doing so, when I could have been helping the Audacity community here on this forum.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

jahway603
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Re: PR #835: Basic telemetry for the Audacity

Post by jahway603 » Sun May 09, 2021 3:12 pm

steve wrote:
jahway603 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:28 pm
None of you are listening to the user concerns on Github,
That is not correct. All of the comments have been read by members of the
Audacity team. I spent several hours yesterday doing so, when I could have
been helping the Audacity community here on this forum.
Perhaps I am wrong, but at least I am willing to admin when I am wrong. The Audacity team has received tons of feedback on this Telemetry pull request. The users do not want it. Is the Audacity team having trouble seeing that this is wrong and then admitting that it's wrong?

I want you to help the Audacity community here on this forum! I want the Audacity team to work on this project without infecting it. The Audacity team still can close this PR and then actually do real helpful work instead of creating this huge problem for their users when the actual users keep clearly saying "No Thanks, I do not want Telemetry in the product I appreciate and use"

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