Learning production in Audacity

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kozikowski
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm

That is good advice!
That's why he's a senior elf. I don't get the robe and fuzzy slippers.
the first 10 podcasts by anyone are usually rubbish
The audiobook version of that is the realization you should read your first chapter over again because it sounds nothing like your last chapter.
I was planning on just having .mp3's that people can click on on my website for starters.
That's how I do it, but you'll need special structure for comments. Are you writing your site HTML? Is your web page app up to it? Are you going to have a Captcha®?

Post an address when you get that far.

Keep raw readings and production masters in WAV. MP3s are listen-only and don't edit well. Keep valuable work in two different places for when the dog eats your laptop.
The more specific your question is, the better the answers are likely to be.
Do a one or two sentence summary of your system when you post. "I'm speaking into a Blue Yeti plugged into a MacBook Pro with OS-X 10.11.x." That will bring us up to speed rapidly without ping-ponging questions back and forth.
skinny and malnourished with my fur all matted.
You're right, My fur wasn't matted. That was theatrical license. I'm a short-hair.

Koz

steve
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by steve » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:49 pm

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
That's how I do it, but you'll need special structure for comments. Are you writing your site HTML? Is your web page app up to it? Are you going to have a Captcha®?
That's a major benefit in using a popular public platform like YouTube. It's quick to set up, there are few security issues to worry about, it's all set up for comments, and when you are thoroughly embarrassed by your early attempts you can delete them without messing up your website.
Be aware though that there are a lot of trolls prowling YouTube - that's where the thick skin comes in, and the famous advice: "DFTT"
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

mac_audio
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by mac_audio » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:01 am

Hi Koz!

Wow, this is turning out to be a crazy place - but fun nonetheless.

(Sort of a cross between "Mama Told Me Not to Come" and "I Had Too Much to Dream last Night"!!) :lol:

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
That is good advice!
That's why he's a senior elf. I don't get the robe and fuzzy slippers.
I still impressed by you, either way!

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
the first 10 podcasts by anyone are usually rubbish
The audiobook version of that is the realization you should read your first chapter over again because it sounds nothing like your last chapter.
Practice makes perfect!

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
I was planning on just having .mp3's that people can click on on my website for starters.
That's how I do it, but you'll need special structure for comments. Are you writing your site HTML? Is your web page app up to it? Are you going to have a Captcha®?
Build using the MAMP stack. (That's macOS, Apache, MySQL and PHP.)

All hand-coded.

Not to be naive, but why have CAPTCHA for .mp3 links? (I could put them in a "Member Only" area, but to start I was thinking of placing them in a public area so anyone could listen. Haven't thought that far ahead!)

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
Post an address when you get that far.
I'm shy, but we can talk if I ever get it done! (Seems like I have soooo much to do this will never happen! From learning the business in's and out's to all the coding, to working on content, to audio gear, and sound production, and so on and so forth. I don't know how anyone starts a start-up and becomes a millionnaire in the first year or two, when I feel like I need another 5-10 years just to finish building all of this?!)

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
Keep raw readings and production masters in WAV. MP3s are listen-only and don't edit well. Keep valuable work in two different places for when the dog eats your laptop.
Is .wav what they call "lossless"?

Do you lose anything saving to .wav versus keeping the raw Audacity files?

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
The more specific your question is, the better the answers are likely to be.
Do a one or two sentence summary of your system when you post. "I'm speaking into a Blue Yeti plugged into a MacBook Pro with OS-X 10.11.x." That will bring us up to speed rapidly without ping-ponging questions back and forth.
Sure thing!

kozikowski wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:09 pm
skinny and malnourished with my fur all matted.
You're right, My fur wasn't matted. That was theatrical license. I'm a short-hair.

Koz
You're too much!

So I'm confused...

Your story sounds like you are somewhere in the southwestern UK, yet your profile says LA, which I assume means Cali?!

Do tell!

mac_audio
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by mac_audio » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:14 am

steve wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:49 pm
That's a major benefit in using a popular public platform like YouTube. It's quick to set up, there are few security issues to worry about, it's all set up for comments, and when you are thoroughly embarrassed by your early attempts you can delete them without messing up your website.
Be aware though that there are a lot of trolls prowling YouTube - that's where the thick skin comes in, and the famous advice: "DFTT"
This may sound dumb, but both you and Koz make it sound like allowing people to comment on podcasts/audio content is key?

I guess I was just to rely on web stats to determine if people like my content.

I have so much else on my mind I haven't started to even consider that.

Although, the website I built does allow people to create accounts and post comments beneath articles that I will write. Guess I could do the same fo audio content. Or, I could just use YouTube.

kozikowski
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am

Do you lose anything saving to .wav versus keeping the raw Audacity files?
Not quite the point. Audacity doesn't save sound files. It creates and saves Projects.

Image

Projects are collections of files and folders (that's one Project) suitable for recreating the editing environment later. That is, in a practical sense the only way to save a multi-channel project with all the blue waves just as you left them.

Projects do not save UNDO. You need to know that.

Projects do have very slightly higher quality than simple WAV files, but they also come with rules. Count the number of posters who couldn't open a Project. Projects are functionally brittle, and if you're still using Audacity 2.2.0 or 2.2.1, they could be damaged because of a bug.

As far as I know, the only people having trouble with WAV (Microsoft) 16-bit are the ones trying to make long shows. Modern sound machines will handle stereo WAV files out to about six hours, but the older restriction was three hours and I have modern stand-alone sound recorders that insist on resetting and starting a new file at three hours.

You can send WAV files, stereo or mono to anybody on earth on all three computing platforms and they will play perfectly. It's a terrific backup and production medium, and you can make WAV masters into the other formats with little or no damage.

Projects only play in Audacity.

Koz

kozikowski
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:44 am

you and Koz make it sound like allowing people to comment on podcasts/audio content is key?
I have no provision to write back or add comments. My goal is not entertainment production. You, on the other hand, are stuck. Your goal is consumable content.

We do have standards and tools for producing audiobooks. I've said if you can make it through the audiobook sound standards, you're pretty much good to go for any kind of production. They're even a very close sister to broadcast standards (having had to meet both).

We can beat you up until you either meet ACX AudioBook standards, or get good enough in your opinion to submit to your audience. Podcasts standards are loose. I have a sound clip here made by somebody whose microphone was completely taken over by rushing wind, and they published anyway.

I kept it as an example of what not to do.


Again in my opinion, I think it's time for you to Do Something. Even if you have to borrow a microphone, or even record on your phone. There's a reason classes include lecture and lab.

Image

I can't find the clip I recorded on that thing.

Koz

kozikowski
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:00 pm

I feel like I need another 5-10 years just to finish building all of this?!)
That's why I think you should Do Something even if it's a recording on your laptop built-in microphones. I did one. I have a test clip for that here somewhere..... It's the difference between the college level course in audio production and getting a podcast out the door.
Is .wav what they call "lossless"?
Not exactly. It's uncompressed. No tricks. It's the worst you can do for data efficiency but the format rules are very clear and the work has very, very good versatility.

....OK, there is one trick. The way Audacity manages sound files, a carefully generated "dither" signal is added. Technically, dither has nothing to do with the show, but it keeps atomic level data errors from adding up and becoming audible.

Audacity works internally at 32-bit floating, not 16-bit. It needs to do that so it doesn't destroy the show by accident.

When you finish and make a new sound file, you could have created new sounds that are unsupported by 16-bit. So a dither signal is added to hide the errors. You can turn dither off, and there are specific conditions when you would want that, but for most work, leave it alone.

I need to go play Real Life.

Koz

mac_audio
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by mac_audio » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:11 pm

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am
Do you lose anything saving to .wav versus keeping the raw Audacity files?
Not quite the point. Audacity doesn't save sound files. It creates and saves Projects.

Projects are collections of files and folders (that's one Project) suitable for recreating the editing environment later. That is, in a practical sense the only way to save a multi-channel project with all the blue waves just as you left them.
That is what I meant.

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am
Projects do not save UNDO. You need to know that.
Okay.

For me, that wouldn't be an issue, because I always keep a "raw" source file of whatever I am working on (e.g. spreadsheet, source code, picture, audio) and then I create tons of "versions" as I develop things. Of course, that probably isn't practical when it comes to Audacity projects, and since any "editing" have done thus far is radio shows, I guess I might have to tweak my workflow with podcasts.

To date, I record a radio show in Audacity, keep the raw as-is, and then create a new file which I edit. If I screw things up, just start over with the raw file. Of course that is a simpleton workflow I suppose.

Sounds like using .wav files is the way around all of that.

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am
Projects do have very slightly higher quality than simple WAV files, but they also come with rules. Count the number of posters who couldn't open a Project. Projects are functionally brittle, and if you're still using Audacity 2.2.0 or 2.2.1, they could be damaged because of a bug.

As far as I know, the only people having trouble with WAV (Microsoft) 16-bit are the ones trying to make long shows. Modern sound machines will handle stereo WAV files out to about six hours, but the older restriction was three hours and I have modern stand-alone sound recorders that insist on resetting and starting a new file at three hours.
Anyone who is making 6-hour podcasts should be shot! :lol:

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am
You can send WAV files, stereo or mono to anybody on earth on all three computing platforms and they will play perfectly. It's a terrific backup and production medium, and you can make WAV masters into the other formats with little or no damage.
I may be dating myself, but it sounds like .wav is the .tiff of the audio world?

Are there any newer and better "lossless" audio formats in 2018?

If so, can I use those with Audacity as well?

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:23 am
Projects only play in Audacity.

Koz
Right.

mac_audio
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by mac_audio » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:23 pm

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:44 am
We do have standards and tools for producing audiobooks. I've said if you can make it through the audiobook sound standards, you're pretty much good to go for any kind of production. They're even a very close sister to broadcast standards (having had to meet both).
Wow! Thread has more branches in it than a 100 year old oak tree! :D

(Some day I will go back, do forensics on this thread, and start a bunch of new threads.)

So, going down the rabbit hole some more...

At a high-level, what are the "standards for audio books"? (Not sure I follow what that means...)

And what about "broadcast standards"?

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:44 am
We can beat you up until you either meet ACX AudioBook standards, or get good enough in your opinion to submit to your audience. Podcasts standards are loose. I have a sound clip here made by somebody whose microphone was completely taken over by rushing wind, and they published anyway.

I kept it as an example of what not to do.
Yeah, there is an endless supply of "crap" on the Internet... (All the better for me if I can produce *quality* and differentiate myself with quality content!)

kozikowski wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:44 am
Again in my opinion, I think it's time for you to Do Something. Even if you have to borrow a microphone, or even record on your phone. There's a reason classes include lecture and lab.

Koz
Oh, don't worry... I am RUSHING as fast as humanly possible, it's just that I have 10,000 competing interests!!

My goal over the next weekend or so is to get a basic recording studio set up. That includes learning some 101 stuff in Audacity - which is why I am here! - and getting my gear set up so I can properly record.

Then, while I hate to go, I really need to turn my attention back to getting my website set up. (I have an ecommerce module I need to finish writing and testing, and then I need to QA over 50,000 lines of code that I wrote a few years ago and which got shelved when some life emergencies came up. Suck a PITA to remember what you did years ago?!)

Once I have an "avenue" for people to find me, and a "home" for content, then I can turn back my attention to writing, producing, and publishing about 20 years of ideas in my head so it is consumable to read and listen to.

Of course, like most, I have a day job that consumes 50-60 hours a week of my life.

Maybe I can start another thread and discuss my gear there. (Just got a boom arm last night, and I am pumped!)

Thanks,


Mac Audio

kozikowski
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Re: Learning production in Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:33 pm

If I screw things up, just start over with the raw file. Of course that is a simpleton workflow I suppose.
Also the recommended one. Retakes may be possible with a home producer, but the grownups frown on it—sometimes to the point of never calling you back.
Anyone who is making 6-hour podcasts should be shot!
The joke is they don't need a microphone since they're only entertaining themselves. Their equipment lists can be really affordable.
.wav is the .tiff of the audio world?
Not exactly. WAV doesn't have a million user options nobody ever uses.
At a high-level, what are the "standards for audio books"? (Not sure I follow what that means...)
They seem simple.

viewtopic.php?p=297423#p297423

They run smack into recording device problems. Home recording microphones typically record at low volume. That's to keep you out of trouble since high volume and overload is immediately fatal. However, low volume recording is a time bomb. It puts your voice close to the microphone noise level.

This is a noise example. It's a tiny sound mixer I designed a built using early, poor electronics.

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/clips/No ... ophone.mp3

In that example, the background noise volume is -46dB. That's much too loud. It needs to be at least -60dB and preferably quieter to pass ACX conformance.

All microphones and microphone systems make that fffffffff background sound, some more than others. It's a juggling act. In addition, the type of noise can be important. It's possible to have ocean waves and a baby screaming on a jet to be the same technical volume........
I'm shy, but we can talk if I ever get it done!
Post the internet address so we can hear the work. You can post sound on the forum, too, but you can only post 10 seconds stereo and 20 seconds mono. I wrote a forum test clip format.

http://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/Test ... _Clip.html
Yeah, there is an endless supply of "crap" on the Internet... (All the better for me if I can produce *quality* and differentiate myself with quality content!)
But content is important. I follow a podcast whose audio is sometimes impossible to hear. But it's theatrically engaging.
And what about "broadcast standards"?
That tends to revolve around the behavior of the transmitter and audio system. No zero carrier (AM) overload—ever—and -60dB noise limit from the microphone system to the demodulator output, etc. I have to look up the distortion spec. FM and television are even wackier because they have intentional distortion (emphasis) you have to work around. Blast from the past.....
getting my gear set up so I can properly record.
The gear doesn't effectively matter if you have a quiet room.

180627_0107CurdsAndWheyFinal.mp3
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OlympusWS823PaperTowel-500t.jpg
OlympusWS823PaperTowel-500t.jpg (86.83 KiB) Viewed 194 times

The important part is what you don't see. That room has carpeting and Home Depot sound tiles on the walls and ceiling.

Koz

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