Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollable

For Musicians to Share Their Music, Tips, Tricks and Reviews.
Forum rules
ImageIf you require help using Audacity, please post on the forum board relevant to your operating system:
Windows
Mac OS X
GNU/Linux and Unix-like
steve
Site Admin
Posts: 48767
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux *buntu

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by steve » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:32 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:Overall for what I'm doing I like this previous version better.. though Audacity 2.1.2 is better ..in some areas it is not! Hopefully 'they' ..are aware.
Audacity is a community project, created and supported by enthusiasts. There is no "they", there is only "us". So if you think that 2.1.2 is less good than 2.1.1 in some ways, then please do say so that "we" can do something about it. We aim to make each release "at least as good" as the previous release - if it's not, then there's a problem.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:43 pm

Okay, thanks Steve.. Finally a "they" less mysterious.. Thinking: "Now, what could be the ulterior motive here..?"

Bug Report:
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 02#p311602

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:25 am

UPDATE.. this whole post is null/void (deleted) keeping excerpts to retain following comment/context

...Notch Filtering: a 59 hertz peak ... assuming it should have been done! Use your plot spectrum at an expanded size to detect these sometime alien invaders.

Alien Peaks: Recorder motor? Outside noise? Part of the song? Solution? No doubt, better recording equipment and better recording space is needed. Because, surely all filtering and noise reduction is best avoided for better equipment and recording space/studio. I assume much of 'editing' not only takes away the bad but also some of the good with it and is mostly unable to thoroughly and properly distinguish between the two (i.e., 'a trade-off')...
Last edited by Black Dog Bluez on Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Robert J. H.
Posts: 1815
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 8:33 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Robert J. H. » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:04 am

Hi BDB
Are you sure that the peak of the alien noise is at 59 Hz, do you have a noise-only sample?

Analysis: Strange enough, spectra for music do not change very much, independent of the song. The roll-off is about 3 to 4 dB per octave.
Modern recordings are certainly crisper than old ones.
Try for a change a multi-band compressor for the ssss-sounds (3 kHz to 7 kHz) but still have a high-shelf boost (at 7 to 8 z) to add some air.
You can also try some tape saturation, harmonic enhancer or exciter (La Petite Excite is excellent, imo).

Robert

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:13 am

Thanks Robert, as usual, I was not content with that edit (and have removed it)... and on this next one I decided to leave the 59 hertz peak be! Not wanting to risk.. Well and I sampled at silence at end and did not notice any notch-benefit /It may be alien? But inconsistent? Regardless have taken a more minimalist approach and left it, thanks.

BTW the La Petite Excite's page/and or DL froze my computer (I had to force shut-down).. Something going on there is my guess BE WARE freeware people.. Thought I'd try it but am now afraid to open it, and I do like freeware.
Last edited by Black Dog Bluez on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:20 am

UPDATE; This is an old post (song/edit since removed)/for newest info read/see forward

PEAKY NOTES UPDATE September 8 XVI Featuring the song "The Ladies Man" re-re-re-done.

Work notes:
THE LADIES MAN 24B/[96KHZto 44/16b/]2ch ... b L3 fxs eqRIAAinverted/21[filter] L4 L1 162r =0908b
b = RMS balance using WaveStats plug-in (download attached below)
fxs = minimal spot fixes using various (Amp., Adjustable Fade, High Pass..)
L3 = Limiter at -3 /soft
eq = Equalizer (Audacity's)*
162r = final RMS value of -16.2

* using the RIAA preset inverted with the filter at 21

Recording my own acoustic guitar and vocal performances on one track, in one take, with one of the least expensive recorders, the Tascam DR-05. Then editing with Audacity.
Results here: update/removed

--- Insane, I know.. editing one song seemingly endlessly over and over again in some perpetual, virtual, living hell.. Squandering all my precious God given time in this Devil's matrix that I can not seem to find an escape from. So while here, there are things that need editing (more trickery?)! Nature's perfection left ravaged by man (and woman..). A perfection that is my only template and me it's miserable admirer from afar. If awake, only to yearn for such indefinable perfection.

No compressor but the Limiter was useful; and Amplification, balancing the RMS left/right.. and Equalizer! I also rendered from 96 kHz to 44 (at the start)... Back in July thinking recording at 96 was a good idea.. Next I'll record at 44, and either 16 or 24 bit ... (?) --- and in a bigger room. The boom in this recording, from the small room recorded in, EQ may have edited out! Audacity lending a big improvement to the original, muddy ... lower volume, out of balance, and with harsher peaks root --- .


BLACK DOG Raising my cup of sienna leaf tea to you... www.SoundClick.com/RonaldNewman
www.SoundCloud.com/BlackDogSongs
Attachments
wavestats.ny
(2.3 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
Last edited by Black Dog Bluez on Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:47 am, edited 4 times in total.

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:19 pm

This original PEAKY NOTES UPDATE has been cancelled and this is that post reedited/for current status see forward posts. Content deemed relevant remains.

RMS balance your stereo tracks using WaveStats plug-in (Download in this thread)

Fix spots (not whole song) using various (e.g., Amplification, Adjustable Fade, Envelope, DeEsser*, High and Low Pass Filter, Repair, Limiter)

* For de-essing using "Spit-Fish" freeware plug-in

IMPORTANT! Get off the headphones! At least to set the initial levels --- which require speakers! Luckily I had a 'Y' RCA adapter I found at a thrift store I was using for cassette to digital transfers (a waste of time/unless a rare cassette unavailable elsewhere..) The 'Y' a separate left/right to one-stereo connector cable/adapter.. to merge my stereo system with my computer ... and have decent speakers to edit with. Use the "Tape", "Video" or "CD" input on older stereos that have no auxiliary, computer or other type inputs.

NOTE: I used full size/range speakers. --- I've tried desktop speakers in the past which did not seem to reveal the true frequencies or 'fullness' of the sound as I assume bigger better speakers do. PICTURE:
speakers2computer.JPG
speakers2computer.JPG (96.57 KiB) Viewed 518 times
WHY NO HEADPHONES? I'm not sure.. but from my experience headphones inaccurately deliver the sound as it will sound through speakers. It may sound fine with headphones then horribly bass-heavy when listened with speakers.. Maybe someone else here can explain this further.. why this is? Regardless, it is!

CAN INITIAL LEVELS BE SET BY ANALYSIS READOUTS ALONE? I'm not sure if there are general rules per plot spectrum analysis which for example give a set parameter of where all levels should or should not be. It doesn't seem logical that such a formula could exist --- as I assume every song has it's own unique balance of frequencies --- which again, I'm assuming can only be corrected by ear, if correction is needed or desired.

FiXeS: After the initial settings, when doing 'fixes', I was able to use headphones and proceed further with intense deep down editing into the furthest depths of the sound. Further then anyone has ever gone before! ... All proprietary, of course.

BLACK DOG Believe in something! Check out Jesus in the 'New Testament' --- cool dude. https://soundcloud.com/blackdogsongs
Last edited by Black Dog Bluez on Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:13 am, edited 6 times in total.

Robert J. H.
Posts: 1815
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 8:33 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Robert J. H. » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:47 am

My thoughts regarding headphones:
Bass sounds are not actually caught by the ears but the bones and the skull. Headphones are thus created that they are comfortable to wear, I think a better bass could be achieved without the soft padding that encircles the outer ear (although some models have a remarkable frequency response).
The wave length of a 20 Hz tone is about 17 cm and fits almost exactly into the head.
The opposite is also true; lay your hand on your forehead (or your bold head, as in my case), sing from low to high and feel the vibrations slowly decrease. Our head is like a big bulb that radiates bass.
Should we use full-head sized mics and headphones? Perhaps... ;)

steve
Site Admin
Posts: 48767
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux *buntu

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by steve » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:38 am

Robert J. H. wrote:Should we use full-head sized mics and headphones? Perhaps... ;)
Very low bass is felt through the body rather than the ears, primarily through feet and torso. Ideally we would have "full-body phones" ;)
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

Robert J. H.
Posts: 1815
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 8:33 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: Peaky notes, EQ and compressor limitations, uncontrollab

Post by Robert J. H. » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:27 pm

steve wrote:
Robert J. H. wrote:Should we use full-head sized mics and headphones? Perhaps... ;)
Very low bass is felt through the body rather than the ears, primarily through feet and torso. Ideally we would have "full-body phones" ;)
:Grin:
Very true

My previous calculation was wrong, sorry...
20 Hz means a wave length of 17 m not cm.
The consequence is that we can't "hear" phase information for bass and low-mids. Therefore, it becomes increasingly harder to locate sounds below 2000 Hz.
Does anyone know Douglas Adams book "The last of their kind".
There's a bird in New Zealand that woos for a mate with sounds that are so low that they can be heard/felt for many many miles. Unfortunately, the "female of the species" has no idea where the sound is coming from... ;)
Listen and enjoy: https://youtu.be/_ZG8HBuDjgc?t=32m42s

Post Reply