What amp mic do you use?

I’d like to thank you all again for the great tips and advice you’ve given me so far, as I start with my recording journey!

I know I can probably use my SM58 for this, but I’m also considering another dynamic mic. I guess my ear isn’t trained well enough yet, because I can’t really tell a difference between a lot of these mics, but I’m looking into either a Shure SM57 (which seems to be a recording “staple” and almost an “industry standard”) or a Sennheiser 609. I know the 609 is about $100, roughly the same price as the SM57.

Right now, I just play acoustic, and my main genre is country music (but not pop country, more like acoustic country, neotraditional, and “Texas” music).

I like a lot of “clean” tones and wouldn’t really be playing with any distortion on the amp. I don’t know if the amp or guitar really matters, but I’d be playing on a small, 10 watt Crate amp, probably with a Telecaster. And I haven’t decided for sure yet, but I’m considering taking up lap steel, so I’d have to take that into account as well (probably doesn’t matter, but thought I’d toss that in anyway).

Any thoughts on either of these? Of course, everyone has their “favorite”, and the reviews I’ve seen of both of them are very, very good. So maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe the SM58 I have now suits my purposes. I don’t know.

I’d like to thank you all again. I’ve already learned some stuff so far.

The Shure SM58 is a very well known “industry standard” microphone for stage use (live performance). They have reasonable sound quality, pretty good “feedback rejection”, and most importantly for a stage mic, they are very tough and can stand up to the rigours of life on the road. They are not particularly renowned for recording, though quite commonly used for recording from guitar cabs or drums, simply because most sound engineers will have some SM58s in their kit, and SM58s are very predictable, which makes them easy to use.

Yes, it matters a lot to the sound. If the guitar / amp sounds rubbish, then you will not be able to get a good sounding recording. If the guitar / amp sounds terrific, then the sound engineer’s job is to try and capture the sound with all of it’s full and joyous quality.

For recording vocals, it is more common to use a condenser microphone, as they tend to have a more clear and “open” sound, capturing high frequencies and subtleties in the voice.

So, then if I wanted to go a different route from the SM58, would you suggest the SM57 or the Sennheiser e609?

As I’ve stated previously, I’m recording all of this myself in my garage. I have AKG P170 pencil condensers, an MK319 Large Diaphragm condenser, and the SM58. But my understanding is that you’re not really supposed to use condensers on amps.

And I do understand what you’re saying in regard to the guitar and the amp. But it’s what I have, so it’s what I’m going to use. Otherwise, if the Mrs. was OK with it, I’d probably go out and buy a Fender Twin or a Marshall or something to use on my electrics. The amp is a Crate EL-10G.

I also understand if the sound from the amp is sub-par, no mic in the world will fix it, but if I can at least capture that sound, that’s a start.

If it’s for mic’ing up your guitar cab, the SM58, SM57 and e609 are all good choices.

The SM58 is a good general purpose dynamic mic, that is especially well suited to live vocals and is extremely tough. It also has excellent power handling, and at a push you can even use one to mic up a kick drum.
The SM58 is probably the most copied mic ever. There are many “fake” SM58s, of widely varying quality. Some are properly marked as a different brand, while others are total fakes that try to pass off as the real thing - If you buy an SM58, get it from a reputable dealer.
Some SM58 copies are very good, and typically a lot cheaper than the Shure original. For example, for people in Europe, there’s an on-line retailer called Thomann that produce an excellent “T-bone MB85 Beta” which I really like - it’s a bit brighter than an SM58, excellent build quality, and very inexpensive (under 40 Euro).

The SM57 is a good general purpose dynamic mic, that is especially well suited for mic’ing up instruments. Some singers like the SM57 for live vocals as they can get close to the mic capsule (it doesn’t have the wire “ball” shield), though for some singers there can be problems with “plosives” (“B” and “P” sounds producing loud “thud” sounds) due to the absence of any built-in pop shield. Like the SM58 they have excellent power handling (unlikely to overload the mic). They also tend to be a bit cheaper than the SM58.

The e609 is specifically designed for mic’in up cabs. When using a small guitar amp it can help to bring out the bass frequencies by placing the mic very close to the speaker - the closer the mic is, the more bass you will get. I’ve not come across anyone using an e609 for vocals, or anything other than guitar cabs really.

would you suggest the SM57

The SM57 is an industry standard, yadda, yadda…on drums. You always see them on drum stacks but rarely on vocals. I don’t know why, but people seem to be happy with them that way.

I think you may get a lot more mileage out of soundproofing. Does the garage have a flat ceiling? Cement floor? Kiss of death. Put something on the floor. Old carpet runners, rug padding, anything.

Peaked or unfinished roof or ceiling is best.


Is the space full of cardboard boxes and miscellaneous trash? Perfect. If you have two opposing “Clean” walls, that will give you echoes and slap distortion.

Metal garage door? They can “ring” and give odd sounding background noises (and transmit neighborhood noises). Park some furniture moving pads over it.


Then, after you prevent the garage from being a performer in your show, mess with the microphones, placement, spacing, etc.

Koz

The SM57 & SM58 are virtually the [u]same[/u] except the 58 has the added ball vocal “pop” filter (which does slightly alter the sound).

But my understanding is that you’re not really supposed to use condensers on amps.

Some pros do use condensers. The main reason for not using a condenser for a guitar amp or kick drum is that condenser mics have an internal head amp that can overload & distort with loud sounds. Dynamic mics don’t have any active electronics inside and an SM57/58 is virtually impossible to overload. But, both of your mics have a “pad” to knock-down the signal. Plus, you’re not using a super-loud amp.

The main difference in “sound character” between mics is frequency response and that can be tweaked with equalization. So, for a home studio on a limited budget I wouldn’t go looking for the “perfect mic” for every situation.

I’ve seen lots and lots of people say that the 57 is excellent for micing electric guitar as well. Though I’m playing clean channels, so the 58 is probably sufficient for what I’ll be trying to do.

Is the space full of cardboard boxes and miscellaneous trash.

Yes. Very, very full. The only “clean” wall isn’t really a wall. It’s the garage door. And I’ve pointed the microphones away from it.

So it sounds like I’ll probably be OK with what I have, given what I’m doing.

This has been on my to-do list forever.


Koz

Here’s one I did. This is just a small spoken part. I did put some minor effects on it, but this is from my garage. I was testing my different mics for my acoustic, with a spoken “intro” talking about gain, position, and such.

Effects: Noise Reduction, Loudness Normalization (perceived, -23), low rolloff for speech, compression (default settings), noise reduction, then normalization.

I did put some minor effects on it

What’s the possibility of getting a clip clean/raw? That’s what mine was. No effects or corrections.

Koz

When I get a bit of extra time, I’ll make one. May be later in the week, but I’ll see what I can do.

@kozikowski, here ya go. Two files. The first is me speaking into my SM58 from about 7 or 8 inches. The gain on my Focusrite is at about 25%, and the “microphone” in Audacity is set to 100%.

Affects applied to the 2nd file in this order:

Loudness Normalization (-23dB)
Noise Reduction
Compressor
Noise Reduction
Low Rolloff
Normalize

I think that’s all I did.

Thanks for the tests.

Nothing wrong with the sound quality. You maneuvered around all the common mistakes and sound issues. No proximity effect, no echoes, slap, or reflections, no talking into a milk jug, no high background noises. I’m guessing it sounds exactly like you with no distortions or tonal problems.

What’s the preamp? You may have published in another message I can’t find. In My Opinion you’re recording too low. The SM58 does not have a lot of zot (technical phrase), and so needs a good boost in the preamp before Audacity gets it. This can get you into trouble with preamplifier noise. See: two Noise Reduction passes.

The RAW clip is some 25dB too quiet. Sound doubles every 6dB. Does the preamp have lights or other indicators? I bet they’re not green or whatever “OK” is. That could be where the high noise level is coming from. The raw peaks should ideally be -10dB to -6dB on the Audacity sound meters. Roughly 50% or a little less in the blue waves.

As a personal experiment, record with the preamp almost all the way up, not at 25%. you may not need both of the noise reductions.

Take note of what you have because that does work. I’m nibbling at the edges.

I have to deal with neighborhood noises. Do you have busy street sounds?

Koz

That’s good to hear! Sounds like I’m on the right track there, at least!

You have, however, brought me to an interesting question. Given that the effects for the second file were applied in this order:

Loudness Normalization (-23dB)
Noise Reduction
Compressor
Noise Reduction
Low Rolloff
Normalize

And assuming I won’t have to do more than 1 noise reduction, in what order should I apply effects? I was also considering giving the vocal a little “delay” or “reverb” so it doesn’t sound as “flat” (if that makes sense) as it does. Unless it’s supposed to sound that way because it’s gonna have guitar around it.

What’s the preamp? You may have published in another message I can’t find. In My Opinion you’re recording too low. The SM58 does not have a lot of zot (technical phrase), and so needs a good boost in the preamp before Audacity gets it. This can get you into trouble with preamplifier noise. See: two Noise Reduction passes.

I’m using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, 3rd gen as my AI.

The RAW clip is some 25dB too quiet. Sound doubles every 6dB. Does the preamp have lights or other indicators? I bet they’re not green or whatever “OK” is. That could be where the high noise level is coming from. The raw peaks should ideally be -10dB to -6dB on the Audacity sound meters. Roughly 50% or a little less in the blue waves.

The preamp does have lights around the gain knobs. I didn’t look at the color, but you’re probably right about the level not being high enough.

As a personal experiment, record with the preamp almost all the way up, not at 25%. you may not need both of the noise reductions.

I’ll give that a shot, for sure.

I have to deal with neighborhood noises. Do you have busy street sounds?

Depending on the time of day, and day of the week, sometimes, but it varies. I live in a smaller town, and they’re building out my neighborhood, so sometimes it depends on what my neighbors are doing and such. For instance, people like to mow their grass early here, so sometimes I can’t do much in the mornings, because I might pick up people mowing their grass or something. Sometimes my next door neighbors like to hang out outside in their garage and driveway, so I don’t want to pick that up either. Sometimes it’s kids playing in the neighborhood. So it really varies.

I was also considering giving the vocal a little “delay” or “reverb” so it doesn’t sound as “flat” (if that makes sense) as it does.

That’s a theatrical effect. You do that after you manage to capture your voice clean and pure. We can’t take those effects out, but we can put them in all day long.

There is another soft-fuzzy recommendation. Record your performances flat and then export them as WAV (Microsoft) 16 bit files. It’s a common New User mistake to record something, apply effects and corrections, mix it, and then export the finished sound file all in one swoop. That does work, but if Audacity or the computer takes a dirt-nap in the middle of production, it sends you all the way back to the microphone in a quiet room. What should happen is you correct the problem, open all your voice and instrument WAV files and mix it again.


I didn’t look at the color, but you’re probably right about the level not being high enough.

Another fuzzy rule. Make the preamp happy. I have a nice preamp that supplies slightly off levels to Audacity. So the Audacity level meters are off, but the lights on the preamp are not. I predict you’re going to get a surprise when you finally get the Scarlett green lights—if you get them. Again, the SM58 is a terrific microphone, but it’s a little wussy on volume. It was designed to be screamed into and work perfectly.

If you do need to jack the Scarlett, don’t go all the way up. Go to the stop and then back off a little.

Then you need to rethink your effects suite. Two Noise Reductions is not normal. Compressors make the noise you do have worse.

This is where I slowly back out of the room. I don’t do musical production. I do know you need to have top quality monitoring speakers or headphones to avoid any surprises. Tune it all so it sounds good without get into technical trouble.

Koz

Hey, I’m new to this, too. Any little bit of info is helpful right now, so I appreciate it!

So if I understand you correctly, you’re saying I should record a guitar track, export as WAV, record vocal, export as WAV, and then within Audacity make my effects changes, and then mix?

If the SM58 doesn’t quite have enough “punch”, that’s OK. I also have an Oktava MK319 (condenser) I can use for vocals, and 2 AKG P170’s (condensers) I can use for my guitar recording.

I bought a pair of TASCAM studio headphones. They’re inexpensive, but I do notice a difference in sound from my “normal” headphones, so those are normally the ones I’d use.