Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

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Monte1022
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by Monte1022 » Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm

DVDdoug wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 2:30 am
No. Normalization makes ONE adjustment to the whole file (or the whole selection), like adjusting the volume before the song starts. There's also "Loudness Normalization" which does target a loudness level, but it's also ONE linear adjustment to the whole file, and with loudness normalization you have to watch out for clipping.
Interesting. I thought you could apply "Loudness Normalization" on a "per track" basis. I didn't realize it was a whole file thing.
It's not too critical but it could change your levels so, before normalization. Usually it's a good idea to normalize as the last step for the simple reason that other effects can affect the levels.
Ok. That makes sense. So if I apply the "low roll off", when would I apply the "noise reduction"? After that I would presume.
Mixing is when you blend (mix) your voice and guitar. If you are recording guitar on the left and your voice on the right, you aren't mixing (the sounds are mixed acoustically in the air) but you probably wouldn't want to leave it that way.
Right now I'm not "panning" anything. I'm recording vocals and guitar to mono tracks. And I'm completely clueless on the rest. Even the information you've given me is brand new information. and I want you to know I very much appreciate it!
Wow, that's cheap! I would have guessed a LOT more! In the "vinyl days" it was a complicated expensive process and it wouldn't have been economical to press one record.
Well, I was a little wrong. it's not a "pressing". It's done via lathe, apparently. I'm not familiar with that process, though. I'm not really planning on playing it, it's going to mainly be for display purposes.

kozikowski
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by kozikowski » Sun May 16, 2021 5:52 pm

Maybe get away with the car being outdoors ... https://youtu.be/kO8Fl1IQVNA
Booth Junky is good. He has simple explainer videos on all the recording stuff.

Also. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHHf1h ... AG8FXjnQSw

Writing that down.

The only thing I don't think he covers is how to sound like you have three testicles.

There is one forum poster trying to do that with Effect > Change Pitch. It's not going well and there's a good technical reason for it. Mike's natural voice has good velvety, low-pitch tones, and crisp, natural mouth sounds. Change Pitch moves the voice tones and everything else. You can't go very far before it sounds like somebody threw a blanket over your head.

Koz

Paul2
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by Paul2 » Sun May 16, 2021 8:20 pm

A car is actually not a bad place to record, especially when parked inside a garage or a quiet suburban road.

I was in the mood to get some coffee from the "mermaid" ;) so used the opportunity to make a test recording for those that may still doubt the effectiveness of a car's interior.

Attached is the clip, it is completely raw, I have not modified it in any way.
It's in 44.1KHz as that is the highest my phone will record at, when using wav.
Microphone was the phone's internal one.

At around the 7 sec mark, you can hear me moving around and at 11 secs, opened the door.
The noises you can clearly hear with the door open, are a car wash about 30 meters away and a small diesel truck at around 20 meters away.

Depending on frequency, there is a difference of between 16 and 20dB, with the door opened and closed.
I excluded the noises made by me moving around and the actual noise of the door opening.
That ain't bad.
Attachments
CAR.wav
(1.52 MiB) Downloaded 4 times

kozikowski
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by kozikowski » Sun May 16, 2021 10:32 pm

When you submit a sound test, it's good to include a reference. The important measurement is not noise. It's noise as compared to the voice or music.

"Car sound test, May fifteenth, twenty-twenty one." [background sound]

Koz

Paul2
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by Paul2 » Sun May 16, 2021 10:56 pm

kozikowski wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:32 pm
When you submit a sound test, it's good to include a reference. The important measurement is not noise. It's noise as compared to the voice or music.
The idea behind this recording was to show the attenuation from outside noises, not noise floor relative to wanted sounds or tonal characteristics of the car's interior, although that will play a part in the response curves shown below.

By noise, do you mean the section when the door was closed?
If so, that is the attenuated sound of the car wash and truck.

My car was not idling, radio was off, as well as the air-con and was parked in an outside lot.

The two responses below further illustrate the attenuation as regards frequency, higher attenuation at higher frequencies which makes perfect sense.
The lower the frequency, the more it's going to penetrate into the car's interior as the doors, padding, etc have little mass.
The peaks at around 65 Hz are not from mains as we use 50 Hz.

Given the built-in low and high end roll off of the phone and the mic, which are constant, it's quite clear from the responses below that they are the same noises.
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DoorOpen.png
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kozikowski
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by kozikowski » Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 pm

The idea behind this recording was to show the attenuation from outside noises, not noise floor relative to wanted sounds or tonal characteristics of the car's interior, although that will play a part in the response curves shown below.
True. But you can change outside noises by moving the car. If you had a poor voice test, then no moving the car is going to help and the recording technique may not be valid. Good to know that right up front. My pickup truck may not be a good studio candidate. Too much glass relative to the padded surfaces, but it would probably give a really good differential door position test.

I don't need any excuse to visit a park for lunch. I've never measured the noise up there.

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Koz

Paul2
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by Paul2 » Mon May 17, 2021 7:19 am

But you can change outside noises by moving the car. If you had a poor voice test, then no moving the car is going to help and the recording technique may not be valid. Good to know that right up front.
For sure, I'm not saying that a car is a fantastic space to record but, given the OP's lack of a quiet space, it may be preferable.
Of course positioning will make a difference, and one can plan for that, however, it's the random noises that are the unknown.

The test I did will give the OP and others, a good idea of the kind of attenuation they can expect.
Too much glass relative to the padded surfaces...
Glass will certainly add to the reverb time and color the sound, it will be dependent on surface area and angle of the glass, ratio of glass to padded surfaces, interior volume of the car, etc
It's easy to test though, no fancy RT60 tests required, just get in and belt out a couple of lines or riffs and see how it sounds.
It's not all bad though, a bit of reverb and color is often nice on vocals and guitar.
I don't need any excuse to visit a park for lunch.
Looks a bit hazy today, best stay indoors. ;)
I've never measured the noise up there.
Where, Mount Lee?
My guess is that noise will be the least of your worries.
It's all the hot air from the pompous celebs you have to be careful of. :D

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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by kozikowski » Mon May 17, 2021 8:33 am

It does occur to me the worst problem might actually be wind. There's a neighborhood street that might have good prospects. It's off a busy avenue, but it's a dead-end into a park. No traffic.
It's all the hot air from the pompous celebs you have to be careful of.
Not to worry. They're never found outside of their expensive cars. I wonder what the noise differential is inside and outside those cars.

Koz

Paul2
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by Paul2 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:56 am

It does occur to me the worst problem might actually be wind.
A good point, wind is pretty broadband....assuming of course you are referring to wind caused by uneven heating as opposed to.... :D
The windy season is coming up for me, will certainly do a test.
I wonder what the noise differential is inside and outside those cars.
My guess, considerably better, probably 8 - 10 dB more.
After all, I'm sure those very important individuals don't want to be subjected to the noisy riff-raff outside.
Seriously though, it would very much depend on the materials used for the padding, and some of those cars would probably be bullet proof, which will add mass.

A quick search revealed some of the popular materials used:

Lightweight Composite Armor.
High-Hardened Ballistic Steel.
Ballistic Nylon.
Kevlar and Aramid Fibers.
Lexan.
Ballistic Fiberglass.

I guess a good start would be to try and find the absorption coefficient of those materials over different frequencies.
Interesting question Koz, when I get some time, will try and research it and come up with an estimate.

kozikowski
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Re: Greetings, all! Mixing/Sound Quality question...

Post by kozikowski » Mon May 17, 2021 9:13 am

Of course the problem might be self-limiting because the owners would have to abandon their home sound studio to use it.

Koz

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