Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

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Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:52 pm

Here is the previous edit sample (E4) now rejected because it had too much infra sound!
wolf_e4_sample_with_no_HP.wav
(1.58 MiB) Downloaded 16 times
wolf e4.PNG
wolf e4.PNG (29.03 KiB) Viewed 1162 times
It's hard to hear the difference but I can and I still don't understand why a lot of professional releases retain this low-end and it sounds fine.. I'll guess it just depends what the heck is making the low-end noise, something good or bad? And then based on that, where to cut, all, some, or none?

Trebor
Posts: 9692
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm
Operating System: Windows 8 or 8.1

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:29 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:43 pm
wolf_e5_sample_with_HP20_48.wav (1.67 MiB)
Could high-pass at 60Hz, rather than 20Hz ...

Green area is just noise, not music.gif
Green area is just noise, not music.gif (258.72 KiB) Viewed 1160 times
Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:43 pm
... I had better results with electric guitar/mini amp ...
Can add mini-amp effect ...
like a mini-amp effect.flac
(352.16 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
like a mini-amp effect.png
like a mini-amp effect.png (14.08 KiB) Viewed 1160 times
"Helmet radio" plugin is here.

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:11 am

As usual I've redid things not happy with any approach, again: I'm working with a low fi recording recorded in a car! a lot working against it not to mention talent-that's a whole other discussion. So just to get the best out of these here's what I did:

Session 1: Odessa Edits (ALL-IN-1) 28 minutes! "EN3"/Edit New 3rd Try. All-in-1:

PRE[NR9/12]-noise reduction

TDR Nova (parallel dynamic equalizer - free plugin) [adding high pass 15/24, 22kHz-left filter compression 20 dBs/2 ratio] with EQ gain on

GMax9/1 (GVST - free plugin)

SPIT[en] (Spitfish - free plugin)

Loudness Normalization 13.

Side note/question: I mistakenly left the TDR Nova in stereo mode on these mono recordings, I do not want to do over! Does anyone think this changed the results/made a difference? I did a test and it did not seem to make a difference. I did not test mono-TDR applied on a stereo track though, versus stereo-TDR applied on a stereo track (not my concern here..).

"just noise, not music"

Does this spect./loga. (screen shot) look good? Is enough low-end cut (i.e., noise)? Screen shots are of whole project not of sample audio attached. The plot spectrum pic' is of the first 237.8 seconds of the project. FYI: I edit with waveform (linear) color 1-orange.
spectrogram-logarythmic-28min-session.PNG
spectrogram-logarythmic-28min-session.PNG (355.73 KiB) Viewed 1134 times
odessa session 1 EN3.PNG
odessa session 1 EN3.PNG (28.52 KiB) Viewed 1134 times
New "EN3" edits are online (labeled EN3) at https://www.soundclick.com/reverendblackdog

New EN3 sample audio:
201031_trk2_en3_sample.wav
(1.74 MiB) Downloaded 18 times

Trebor
Posts: 9692
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm
Operating System: Windows 8 or 8.1

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:42 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:11 am
TDR Nova (parallel dynamic equalizer - free plugin)
[adding high pass 15/24, 22kHz-left filter compression 20 dBs/2 ratio] ...

SPIT[en] (Spitfish - free plugin)
TDR Nova has "De-ess(linked)" preset which would allow you to dispense with Spitfish ...

TDR Nova 'De-ess(linked)'.gif
Compress & de-ess at the same time
TDR Nova 'De-ess(linked)'.gif (1.18 MiB) Viewed 1132 times
Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:11 am
I mistakenly left the TDR Nova in stereo mode on these mono recordings ...
That won't make any difference to the result.

Infrasound is only potentially a problem if it is present before you apply compressor/limiters.

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:11 am
201031_trk2_en3_sample.wav (1.74 MiB)
I'd be tempted to apply distortion to create higher harmonics ...

Cyanide2 waveshaper (distortion) plugin

StereoTouch (pseudostereo-delay)

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:12 pm

Update- My new edits are labeled Eao for edit as Odessa, Odessa being my favorite song edit result so far of my trial and errors, here: https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14145195

My conclusion for my type of low quality recordings is to not cut anything except to get the volume up - so (for the most part) I just used harsh compression. GVST's GCom at 6 ratio 20 threshold 10 limiter 50/50 peak/rms, basically the "Mix" preset modified some. The low-end I left, no high pass added, even noise reduction diminished things for me so I did not use it either. To me these sound best untouched-raw but the volumes are too low. Thanks for the help though and I remain open minded to any further help and will explore those links ASAP and update any new revelations I might have.

Thanks Trebor.

Trebor
Posts: 9692
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm
Operating System: Windows 8 or 8.1

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:46 pm

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:12 pm
My conclusion for my type of low quality recordings is to not cut anything except to get the volume up - so (for the most part) I just used harsh compression. GVST's GCom at 6 ratio 20 threshold 10 limiter 50/50 peak/rms, basically the "Mix" preset modified some.
Multi-band is going to produce a better result than single band ...

Gmulti compression suggestion for Odessa.png
Note: Band1 is "M"uted
Gmulti compression suggestion for Odessa.png (37.85 KiB) Viewed 1048 times
I still have the old version of Gmulti, the newer one looks different but acts the same.

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:54 am

Thanks Trebor I experimented with the GVST GMulti compressor and you're right! I got better results, and I compressed/and more without having to use high pass i.e, low cut. It's quite a learning curve though.. more trial and error needed. I see I can lower or raise whole band levels along with adding compression, or not, in the three bands, dividing the song into three sections.

As far as the stereo width I wasn't sure so I left them at default ..(0, 100, 100)..(Control right click).

The stereo width goes from 0-200. Is 100 normal, untouched/unaltered? And would mono tracks be effected the same as stereo per this setting? The manual doesn't explain this feature very well.

New edit using GMulti so far: "Blue Haze/TheresAlwaysBeenAMask.. Egm" (Edit G Multi) -big improvement! Thanks again! :) Have a great year all, Kill your television!!

Trebor
Posts: 9692
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm
Operating System: Windows 8 or 8.1

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:56 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:54 am
... As far as the stereo width I wasn't sure so I left them at default ..(0, 100, 100)..(Control right click).

The stereo width goes from 0-200. Is 100 normal, untouched/unaltered? And would mono tracks be effected the same as stereo per this setting? ...
Yes, 100 makes no change to the stereo-image, 0* makes that band mono, >100 makes the stereo image wider.
If you're working on a mono track, the stereo-width controls make no difference to the end result:
Gmulti does not add pseudo-stereo, it only widens/narrows the existing stereo-image.

[ * the bass band (band 1) should usually be mono, i.e. 0 width ].

Black Dog Bluez
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:35 am

More thanks Treb! Rolling right along here.. I used the Voxengo stereo touch! To good results and only on a mono, never duplicating to stereo and it worked assuming that is what it is intended to do work for just mono.. though I need to seek a manual out for this plugin, or experiment with it on a dual mono stereo and see. It did work though on just mono - and I like the ease of working with mono, especially when I recorded mono, here's a before and after "stereo touch" of a new song I'm still editing.

here's with Vox..stereo touch here's without
Thanks 'gain Treb,

Reverend Black Dog
https://www.reverbnation.com/revblackdog

Trebor
Posts: 9692
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm
Operating System: Windows 8 or 8.1

Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:36 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:35 am
... I used the Voxengo stereo touch! To good results and only on a mono,
never duplicating to stereo and it worked assuming that is what it is intended to do work for just mono..
It will just add mono delays, (& if enabled, High Pass Filter & Low Pass Filter will be applied to the delayed signal only),
so no pseudo-stereo effect.

When I use Voxengo stereo-touch I duplicate the mono track, join them into a stereo-pair, beforehand,
then applying stereo-touch produces a wide pseudo-stereo effect.

Then I can tweak the stereo-width in Gmulti or OvertoneGEQ*, (e.g. reduce stereo-width of the bass).

[ * another freebie from Voxengo. It's 2 equalizers: one for the middle & one for the side.
(On a mono track there is no side) ].

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