Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

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Black Dog Bluez
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Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:43 pm

Hi Audacity: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes like Audacity's envelope tool but automatically, that anyone knows of, and free? I find enveloping so much less sound altering for my type of music than compression or limiting sometimes - but so labor intensive!

Thanks Audacity! - Very much appreciated!

Blues enthusiast, Rev. Black Dog

https://www.soundclick.com/reverendblackdog

Corona is 5G

steve
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by steve » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:55 pm

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:43 pm
Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes like Audacity's envelope tool but automatically
Not that I know of.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

Trebor
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:45 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:43 pm
... Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes like Audacity's envelope tool but automatically, that anyone knows of, and free? I find enveloping so much less sound altering for my type of music than compression ...
If you use multi-band compression it can do a better job than Audcaity's native compressor which is single-band.

Gmulti is a free* multi (3) band compression plugin which works in Audacity on Windows

[ * donationware ]
Last edited by Trebor on Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Black Dog Bluez
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:10 am

Thanks all/no and yes --- and I've noted/bookmarked those plugins to get back ASAP and delve in and maybe try but 'going to be hard to beat the envelope tool for accuracy being it's so manual, thus precise. Great tool, an auto option would be interesting but again probably not as good as the accuracy you can get doing it manually. I'll keep checking to see if anyone has even more recommendations, thanks. :)

Trebor
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:13 am

BTW Black Dog, you should remove all infrasound with a high-pass filter before applying compression ...

RevBlackDog-HighPass.gif
RevBlackDog-HighPass.gif (181.21 KiB) Viewed 650 times
Infrasound is inaudible to humans, but will interfere with the correct operation of a compressor.

Black Dog Bluez
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:24 am

Trebor wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:13 am
BTW Black Dog, you should remove all infrasound with a high-pass filter before applying compression ...

RevBlackDog-HighPass.gif

Infrasound is inadible to humans, but will interfere with the correct operation of a compressor.
Really?

I've tried both ways and concluded I'm losing something good when I do that, seems so but maybe I'm wrong. So I've been trying to keep as much low-end as possible, ie., "infra sound". Why is it that it should be removed? --- Well I know the compressor can only handle so much so I've been pushing the compressor to that point and then enveloping the rest and then finishing with limiting.

Trebor
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:45 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:24 am
... I've tried both ways and concluded I'm losing something good when I do that ...
If the 20Hz high-pass filter is steep (48dB/octave) then you won't lose anything audible.
Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:24 am

"infra sound". Why is it that it should be removed? ...
Any effect which has a threshold (e.g. compressor limiter) can be influenced by infrasound. So such effects will act inconsistently across the track because they responding to the inaudible very low frequency (<20Hz) signal.

RevBlackDog-WAY too much infrasound.png
No person can hear below 20Hz
RevBlackDog-WAY too much infrasound.png (26.54 KiB) Viewed 649 times
https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/plot_spectrum.html

Black Dog Bluez
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm

Great info Trebor, much appreciated! PS I noticed you removed original recommended links/effects plugin links.. I guess because this went a different way but I have noted them for possible future use. I think it was you that also led me to the GVST plugins, linked here, they are great free tools!!

I've redone this song and reloaded my websites with the high pass added versions of The Wolf And Me (edit E5) and will probably redo all my songs ASAP. I first redid and compared with and without high pass filter and decided you were right. Thanks Trebor!

My research shows a lot of songs retaining the low-end but is it the same type low-end I have? I guess not.

I still did the edit the same except I first did the high pass filter (20/48) as Trebor suggested (edit E5). Also, during editing: at the point I needed a little more volume because I didn't want to over use compression (GVST GCom, a free plugin, compressor) I then used the envelope tool, again, and this time it needed considerably less! I then finished with GMax (GVST) limiter to give 'things a little ceiling/head room /at -15.5 LUFS, the same volume of Matchbox Blues by Blind Lemon Jefferson.

Fun stuff, thanks guys! And thanks Trebor!

Rev. Black Dog, high pass drifter

https://www.soundclick.com/reverendblackdog

Corona is 5G [..corporate lies!]

PS I had 2 WAV samples I was going to attach: before and after but they are too big, what is the upload limit?

Trebor
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Trebor » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:51 am

Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm
Great info Trebor, much appreciated! PS I noticed you removed original recommended links/effects plugin links...
They're all reliable compressors: but if you only want to learn one it would be Gmulti.
It's multi-band, has a high-pass filter, stereo-width & gain for each of the three frequency-bands.
You can also monitor each of the frequency-bands in isolation.
Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm
I've redone this song and reloaded my websites with the high pass added versions of The Wolf And Me (edit E5) and will probably redo all my songs ASAP...
NB: in this case the order the effects are applied matters. High-pass before compression.
Applying the high-pass filter after compression will not undo any problems caused to the compressor by infrasound.
Black Dog Bluez wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:23 pm
PS I had 2 WAV samples I was going to attach: before and after but they are too big, what is the upload limit?
2Mb per post, about 10 seconds of stereo WAV 44100Hz 16-bit,

Black Dog Bluez
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:43 pm
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Re: Is there a plugin that automatically envelopes?

Post by Black Dog Bluez » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:43 pm

I think I got it but I don't think I can tweak this lo-fi session anymore than I have. It was recorded in my car with acoustic guitar with a Tascam DR05.. I keep trying to get what I can get out of this, I don't have anywhere else to record really and I don't think I'm going to record like this again, it's the worst scenario, very hard to do anything with but here I am.. I had better results with electric guitar/mini amp and using an extension dynamic mic with acoustic guitar, all in the car, the dynamic mic seemed better than the built-in Tascam condensors. Here is a sample of the finished result with high pass filter (20/48) and the rest as mentioned earlier:
wolf_e5_sample_with_HP20_48.wav
(1.67 MiB) Downloaded 14 times
wolf e5.PNG
wolf e5.PNG (30.05 KiB) Viewed 535 times
This is the edit currently online.

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