New version of "Crossfade Tracks"

[steve]

The attached file is a new version of Crossfade Tracks (this demo is for mono tracks only). Posted here for people to test and comment before updating the shipped version.

I have temporarily named it "Crossfade Tracks2..." so that it may be installed alongside the currently shipped version.
Installation instructions; http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/ef ... st_effects

Differences between this version and the currently shipped version:

• It is not restricted to two tracks at a time (though it would normally be used on two tracks at a time)
• The "fade-out track" may be above or below the "fade-in track".

Other than the above two points the current documentation still applies: http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/cr ... racks.html

crossfadetracks2.ny

LATEST VERSION

(2.61 KiB) Downloaded 138 times

[/size]

crossfadetracks2.ny

OBSOLETE DEMO VERSION

(1.93 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

[Gale Andrews]

I noticed the warning about not using on one track has been removed.


Gale

[whbjr]

* The "fade-out track" may be above or below the "fade-in track"

Okay, how does this work? Given two (or more?!) tracks, it automatically figures out which to fade in and which to fade out? (I'm asking without trying, so the answer might be "try it, and you'll see," but consider this to be Debugging the Documentation.)

[steve]

I noticed the warning about not using on one track has been removed.

"Hopefully" users will at least glance briefly at the documentation (perhaps I'm hoping too much ) or will experiment and discover.

"Normal" use:
Select the parts that you want to crossfade, like this:

tracks002.png (15.65 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

or like this:

tracks003.png (15.63 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

and apply the crossfade:

tracks004.png (16.7 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

but you can also do this:

tracks005.png (9.44 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

or this:

tracks006.png (17.31 KiB) Viewed 1277 times

and so on.

so the answer might be "try it, and you'll see,"

Please do

[Gale Andrews]

I prefer the behaviour does get into the documentation rather than "suck it and see".

To my uneducated eye, it looks like it decides to fade out or in depending on the position of the selection in the track or clip.

If the selection is in the left half of the track or clip, it fades in.

If the selection is in the right half of the track or clip, or if all the track or clip is selected, it fades out.

So in the below image, wherever I slide the fully selected track 2 to, that track will always fade out:

Track 2 will always fade out.png (2 KiB) Viewed 1271 times

Was I somewhere close in my guess?


Gale

[steve]

To my uneducated eye, it looks like it decides to fade out or in depending on the position of the selection in the track or clip.

Absolutely correct.

More precisely, it looks at the proximity of the start of the selection to the start of the audio clips (call that distance "A"), and the proximity of the end of the selection to the end of the audio clips (call that distance "B"). If A < B, fade-in. If B <= A fade-out.

I prefer the behaviour does get into the documentation rather than "suck it and see".

Of course. Assuming that this update is included in Audacity 2.1.3, the documentation in the manual will be updated.

[Gale Andrews]

So in the below image, wherever I slide the fully selected track 2 to, that track will always fade out:

So, in the currently released version of the plugin, those selections would crossfade rather than both fading out. If I really wanted to crossfade those selections so that the entire standalone clip in track 2 faded in, I must generate silence at the end of the clip and remove the split line caused by generating silence (two extra steps).

Should there be some choice given e.g. an option for whether a fully selected track or clip fades out or in?


Gale

[steve]

So, in the currently released version of the plugin, those selections would crossfade rather than both fading out.

Yes, but please also consider this case:

tracks008.png (16.61 KiB) Viewed 1263 times

In the current version, the fades will be the wrong way round.

If I really wanted to crossfade those selections so that the entire standalone clip in track 2 faded in, I must generate silence at the end of the clip and remove the split line caused by generating silence (two extra steps).

Firstly I think that we can agree that this is not a "normal" case of crossfading tracks.
Secondly, you could simply drag the second track above the first track, or you could use the normal Fade-in Fade-out (or "Adjustable Fade") and make the crossfade manually. In this highly untypical case, the new version is no worse than the current version.

Should there be some choice given e.g. an option for whether a fully selected track or clip fades out or in?

There are many ways that this effect can be defeated. I have considered many ways to make the effect more foolproof, but after much deliberation my conclusion is that the "normal" case for crossfading tracks is so common that I would rather optimise the effect for 99.99% of cases rather than worry about 0.01% of fringe cases.

My intention is that it is as simple, easy, versatile and convenient as possible for the typical use case. For oddball cases such as your example, there are alternative tools that are better suited.

[Gale Andrews]

So, in the currently released version of the plugin, those selections would crossfade rather than both fading out.

Yes, but please also consider this case:

In the current version, the fades will be the wrong way round.

I did consider it, it's good that we have flexibility to have the fade out track above or below. I do not suggest changing that.

I still ask, why is the "select all the clip or track" case fade out rather than fade in or rather than making that an option? Is fade out always best? I don't know but I don't think it an illegitimate question.

If I really wanted to crossfade those selections so that the entire standalone clip in track 2 faded in, I must generate silence at the end of the clip and remove the split line caused by generating silence (two extra steps).

Firstly I think that we can agree that this is not a "normal" case of crossfading tracks.

No one crossfades standalone clips? If they do so, I would have guessed they could conceivably want to fade all of that clip.

you could simply drag the second track above the first track

How would you drag a track above the top track in the track table?

If I move the track up using the Track Dropdown Menu, I see the same result - both tracks fade out.

In this highly untypical case, the new version is no worse than the current version.

If I wanted to crossfade (as the effect says) clearly the current version is "worse" in that case. It does not crossfade. It's up to you to decide if that matters in the light of how people may currently use your effect.


Gale

[steve]

I still ask, why is the "select all the clip or track" case fade out rather than fade in

No reason. I could have chosen fade in, but I chose fade out.

or rather than making that an option?

Are you requesting an option:
"If start of selection is equal distance from the start of the track as the end of the selection from the end of the track, then: Fade-In / Fade-out"

you could simply drag the second track above the first track

Scrap that - it's been a long day.

You could extend the selection just a tiny bit to the right (as little as one sample distance is enough)


The reason that I want the fade direction to be automatic is because if you have a lot of crossfades to perform, then you can simply repeat the effect, which is extremely efficient and convenient.