Audacity Forum

Gale Andrews wrote:

steve wrote:At this point I think we would need to make some design decisions. Does the user want to make unattended recording OR does the user want hands-on audio editing.

If they don't want to make an unattended recording, why are they using Timer Record?

We have our reasons ... my personal Use Case:

Noel Casey's After Midnight show airs on Dublin City FM webstream every Monday night from Midnight to 2am. I usually manage the first half to three-quarters of an hour but can't manage "musician's hours" so go to bed before the show is over.

So the show is half attended and half unattended - currently there is no mechanism for converting an active hands-on recording into a TR with a prefefined end-time (though the Wiki proposal does ask for that).

During the "attended" part of the recording I would like to perform minimal editing in the form of adding labels at key points in the show. This can't be done as I need to set the show up as a full TR to capture the full show.

I can't countenance even a shortish break to switch from manual attended recording to set up a TR for the rest of the show when I go to bed as I use this recording as a "Listen Again" for the use of the DJ and his FaceBook page for the show (Audacity gets good publicity for this). Dublin City FM seems strangely unable to offer a "Listen Again" facility themselves, as the Beeb does.

Nor do I want to leave an "unattended recording" running for a further eight hours while I sleep.

Peter.

waxcylinder wrote:Noel Casey's After Midnight show airs on Dublin City FM webstream every Monday night from Midnight to 2am. I usually manage the first half to three-quarters of an hour but can't manage "musician's hours" so go to bed before the show is over.

You don't actually need TR to do that. All that you need to do is set the "play region" (not well named because it is also a "record region") and then start the recording.

Bug:
If there are no other tracks in the project, the above does not work - Audacity fails to stop.
Workaround:
Generate Silence - enough to last the duration of the recording, so for you show, say 2h 10m. Double click on the track (a quick way to select the full 2h 10m), then at some point between 11:50 and 12 midnight, press "R" to start the recording.

waxcylinder wrote:During the "attended" part of the recording I would like to perform minimal editing in the form of adding labels at key points in the show.

That's not really "editing" (certainly it is not "audio editing").
Using the above method you can do that, but you need to be careful. Audacity has not locked you out, so Stop, Pause, and so on (buttons or keyboard shortcuts), are enabled. Example: if you tell Audacity to stop, then it will.

Using TR, Audacity (rightly) locks you out, which prevents you from doing something that will mess up the recording. Whether or not the user should be allowed to amend the recording time while the recording takes place is another question (most VCRs don't allow that).

steve wrote:

waxcylinder wrote:Noel Casey's After Midnight show airs on Dublin City FM webstream every Monday night from Midnight to 2am. I usually manage the first half to three-quarters of an hour but can't manage "musician's hours" so go to bed before the show is over.

You don't actually need TR to do that. All that you need to do is set the "play region" (not well named because it is also a "record region") and then start the recording.

Bug:
If there are no other tracks in the project, the above does not work - Audacity fails to stop.
Workaround:
Generate Silence - enough to last the duration of the recording, so for you show, say 2h 10m. Double click on the track (a quick way to select the full 2h 10m), then at some point between 11:50 and 12 midnight, press "R" to start the recording.

Interesting - and a cute workaround.

steve wrote:Using TR, Audacity (rightly) locks you out, which prevents you from doing something that will mess up the recording. Whether or not the user should be allowed to amend the recording time while the recording takes place is another question (most VCRs don't allow that).

This is a very good point and reinforces my desire to no longer support access to the controls during TR, I like the safety net that that provides

Peter.

waxcylinder wrote:

steve wrote:

steve wrote:Using TR, Audacity (rightly) locks you out, which prevents you from doing something that will mess up the recording. Whether or not the user should be allowed to amend the recording time while the recording takes place is another question (most VCRs don't allow that).

This is a very good point and reinforces my desire to no longer support access to the controls during TR, I like the safety net that that provides

And I've just commented on that Wiki Proposal that there should be no need to lock out metering, Mixer Toolbar controls or Add Label at Playback Position when doing Timer Recording.

For example, mini volume controls could be provided in the Waiting to Record and Record Progress dialogues, and a Labelling button in Record Progress.


Gale

steve wrote:

waxcylinder wrote:Noel Casey's After Midnight show airs on Dublin City FM webstream every Monday night from Midnight to 2am. I usually manage the first half to three-quarters of an hour but can't manage "musician's hours" so go to bed before the show is over.

You don't actually need TR to do that. All that you need to do is set the "play region" (not well named because it is also a "record region") and then start the recording.

Bug:
If there are no other tracks in the project, the above does not work - Audacity fails to stop.

I don't think that's really a bug. In what other way you can you use it as a Record Region?

If you turn Play Region lock on, drag from 5s to 10s on the Timeline then record, the recording still starts at time zero, as I would expect.


Gale

Gale Andrews wrote:In what other way you can you use it as a Record Region?

Erm... you mean, other than when recording?
I don't 'get' what you mean. I mostly use it for "punch in" recording (multi-track style).

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:In what other way you can you use it as a Record Region?

Erm... you mean, other than when recording?
I don't 'get' what you mean. I mostly use it for "punch in" recording (multi-track style).

I mean I don't understand how you are using a Play Region ( http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/ti ... lay-region ) as a Record Region. I can't get a Quick-Play Region to even persist unless I lock it. And even if I do lock it, it still records to the selection region.


Gale

Gale Andrews wrote:I can't get a Quick-Play Region to even persist unless I lock

I'm not talking about "Quick Play", which is, by definition, transitory. I'm talking about the normal <-------> line that indicates the current "transport region", as appears when you make a selection.

Demonstration:
1) Add an audio track.
2) Enter, then Ctrl+F6 so that nothing is selected
3) In the Selection toolbar, enter start time as 10 seconds, and end time as 20 seconds.
4) Zoom out and you can see that a time region is selected, and there is a "play region" ("transport region") line <------> within the selection.
Note that there is no "track selection", and there is no audio to play, so playback is impossible.

5) Press "R".
Recording starts at the beginning of the "transport region".
The recording position indicator (vertical red line and red arrow) progress from the start of the transport region, and stop when they reach the end.

6) Repeat the above without an empty track. Exactly the same happens except that the recording continues after the recording position indicator has stopped.
I would say that was a bug.
I would also say that "transport region" is a better name than "play region" for the <------> line.

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:I can't get a Quick-Play Region to even persist unless I lock

I'm not talking about "Quick Play", which is, by definition, transitory. I'm talking about the normal <-------> line that indicates the current "transport region", as appears when you make a selection.

Demonstration:
1) Add an audio track.
2) Enter, then Ctrl+F6 so that nothing is selected
3) In the Selection toolbar, enter start time as 10 seconds, and end time as 20 seconds.
4) Zoom out and you can see that a time region is selected, and there is a "play region" ("transport region") line <------> within the selection.
Note that there is no "track selection", and there is no audio to play, so playback is impossible.

5) Press "R".
Recording starts at the beginning of the "transport region".
The recording position indicator (vertical red line and red arrow) progress from the start of the transport region, and stop when they reach the end.

6) Repeat the above without an empty track. Exactly the same happens except that the recording continues after the recording position indicator has stopped.
I would say that was a bug.

OK. You did not say how to create the "play region" so I wasn't sure what you meant.

Step 5 carries on recording past the selection if Overdub is off, so I assume carrying on recording for the Step 6 scenario (even if Overdub is on) has the same cause.

steve wrote: I would also say that "transport region" is a better name than "play region" for the <------> line.

According to the Manual, "Play Region" has the specific meaning of either "Quick-Play region" or the <-------> in the Timeline which appears under the Selection Region in the Timeline. The Manual calls the <-------> under the Selection Region in the Timeline a "playback region".

I agree that <-------> under the Selection Region could well be described as a "transport region", but does "Play Region" in the Edit menu then become Transport Region? I guess that's OK if you can "sell" the longer word to the developers.


Gale

Gale Andrews wrote:Step 5 carries on recording past the selection if Overdub is off, so I assume carrying on recording for the Step 6 scenario (even if Overdub is on) has the same cause.

Yes, that appears to be the case.

Gale Andrews wrote:According to the Manual, "Play Region" has the specific meaning of either "Quick-Play region"

Yes, "Quick Play" is a playback only feature, so no problem with that. (we don't have "Quick Record").

Gale Andrews wrote:or the <-------> in the Timeline which appears under the Selection Region in the Timeline. The Manual calls the <-------> under the Selection Region in the Timeline a "playback region".

That is the usage that I think should be called "transport region", and should behave consistently when recording.
I can see why it doesn't behave consistently when recording, and technically it is logical, but practically I think that the concept of "transport region" would be more useful. Being that Audacity is intended for practical use, the practical argument should always win .

Gale Andrews wrote:but does "Play Region" in the Edit menu then become Transport Region?

You mean "Play Region > Lock/Unlock"?
Currently that is a playback only feature - it is only locking the playback region and not the recording region.
I can think of many uses for locking the playback region, but have never encountered a need to lock the recording region - have you?