Track Drop-down Menu commands

[Gale Andrews]

it does what it does now, because there is no choice but to reverse one of the channels.

I've just described what I think is the more logical "choice" if we say that "Make Stereo Track" takes account of the channel allocation.

I agree with your criticism of that - it's too like mix and render. I'm just talking about a common sense vertical movement of tracks, where a "Swap Channels" item in the Track Drop-Down would do the same thing.

A practical point: What is the use case for having a mono track set to the right channel above a mono track set to the left channel and wanting to make them into a stereo track with the (upper) right channel moving below the (lower) left channel to create the stereo track?

So they still sound the same when you make them stereo (because, for example you now want to apply edits to selections in both channels without giving yourself RSI).

As Robert says, a way to get at the separate channels without splitting the stereo track would help a lot here.


Gale

[steve]

I can see that if someone has a lot of stereo tracks / files where they want to swap the left and right channels, that a two key press solution would be better than the current 7 key presses (or 3 seconds with a mouse), but how often do people want to do that?

To simply split a stereo track and rejoin it, is only:
Context menu > T
Context menu > K

If someone has a large number of files that they want to swap the channels, then they could set up a Chain command with the Channel Mixer plug-in.

So they still sound the same when you make them stereo

but in the vast majority of cases, if the channels are set to left and right (by channel allocation rather than by pan control) then it is because a stereo track has been split, in which case the left channel is at the top. And if they have used the track pan controls then it will not sound the same, unless you also want "Make Stereo Tracks" follow the pan sliders.

To my mind this is just making a simple thing complicated with only fringe benefits in a minuscule number of cases.

[Gale Andrews]

To my mind this is just making a simple thing complicated with only fringe benefits in a minuscule number of cases.

I bet you it would stop the complaints though.

Or of course you could make a patch for "Swap Channels" in the Drop-Down Menu. I think it could be useful on an unsplit stereo track and on the upper track of a pair?


Gale

[steve]

I bet you it would stop the complaints though.

but now we are into conjecture about how many complaints would stop and how many new complaints there would be.

Or of course you could make a patch for "Swap Channels" in the Drop-Down Menu.

Yes, I think that would be quite easy to do. Is there a demand for it? It rarely comes up here on the forum. I can't see the developers being very enthusiastic about adding a feature for something that can already be done in 2 seconds.

I think it could be useful on an unsplit stereo track and on the upper track of a pair?

I'm not sure what you mean by "on the upper track of a pair". There is already an option to move the track up or down, so isn't that the same as swapping a pair?

[Gale Andrews]

I bet you it would stop the complaints though.

but now we are into conjecture about how many complaints would stop and how many new complaints there would be.

I think most users should be able to understand why Audacity joined the two tracks so that the left channel that was at the bottom of the pair moved to the top of the joined track.

Or of course you could make a patch for "Swap Channels" in the Drop-Down Menu.

Yes, I think that would be quite easy to do. Is there a demand for it? It rarely comes up here on the forum. I can't see the developers being very enthusiastic about adding a feature for something that can already be done in 2 seconds.

Yes complaints about channel reversal with Make Stereo Track is one of the more regular [email protected] and inbox annoyances.

I think it could be useful on an unsplit stereo track and on the upper track of a pair?

I'm not sure what you mean by "on the upper track of a pair". There is already an option to move the track up or down, so isn't that the same as swapping a pair?

Yes. But if the Swap command is there for an unsplit stereo track (where it is useful) I see no need to grey it out on the upper track of a pair of channels.

Move Track to Top and Move Track to Bottom would be useful too.


Gale

[steve]

Personally I think that I would find the proposed behaviour extremely annoying. If I have Mary singing on the first "Audio Track" and Jane singing on the second "Audio Track", I don't expect Mary to suddenly jump down below Jane. As far as I'm aware there are no other audio editing programs that do what is being proposed, so I would expect a lot of complaints if we changed it.

A practical point: What is the use case for having a mono track set to the right channel above a mono track set to the left channel and wanting to make them into a stereo track with the (upper) right channel moving below the (lower) left channel to create the stereo track?

I still don't see a common use case for this. The most likely case that I can think of is that the user hasn't looked at the manual and expects that it is necessary to assign channels before joining tracks. Fortunately Audacity does not require that.

Yes. But if the Swap command is there for an unsplit stereo track (where it is useful) I see no need to grey it out on the upper track of a pair of channels.

You're confusing "channels" with "tracks".

[Gale Andrews]

Personally I think that I would find the proposed behaviour extremely annoying. If I have Mary singing on the first "Audio Track" and Jane singing on the second "Audio Track", I don't expect Mary to suddenly jump down below Jane.

But you would know not to put Jane second if she was in the left channel, wouldn't you?

If both ladies were mono, their tracks would not move when joined.

I still don't see a common use case for this. The most likely case that I can think of is that the user hasn't looked at the manual and expects that it is necessary to assign channels before joining tracks. Fortunately Audacity does not require that.

Audacity should also try to require not looking at the Manual where possible.

I get the impression these users are commonly playing around with a few mono tracks, using the "Left Channel" and "Right Channel" in the drop-down to switch channel assignment, and then intuitively expect no channel reversal when the channels are joined.

Yes. But if the Swap command is there for an unsplit stereo track (where it is useful) I see no need to grey it out on the upper track of a pair of channels.

You're confusing "channels" with "tracks".

OK, so rewrite "no need to grey it out..." in a less confusing way, bearing in mind the stereo track is already split. Isn't a left channel still a track that has its own focus border?

If there was a "Swap Channels" item, do you think it should only be active on a stereo track, and greyed on a track assigned to mono, left channel or right channel? If I have three tracks, left above right above mono, and use the drop-down on the third track, what would "Swap channels" do?


Gale

[steve]

I get the impression these users are commonly playing around with a few mono tracks, using the "Left Channel" and "Right Channel" in the drop-down to switch channel assignment, and then intuitively expect no channel reversal when the channels are joined.

There's the rub. They don't expect the channel assignments to be overridden, but they do expect tracks to suddenly jump to different vertical positions in the project.

In the case of two mono tracks, the upper track assigned to the right channel and the lower set to the left channel; on joining the tracks, one of two things could occur. Ether, the channel assignments are overridden and the tracks stay in their original positions within the project, or the channels remain the same and the tracks move to different positions within the project.

The former option allows consistent behaviour, regardless of channel allocation. The upper track ALWAYS remains as the upper track and becomes the left channel and the lower track becomes the right channel.

The latter option requires conditional behaviour:
IF the upper channel is assigned left AND the lower channel assigned right, then the upper track becomes the left channel
IF both channels are assigned left OR both channels are assigned right, then the upper track becomes the left channel
If the upper channel is assigned right AND the lower channel assigned left, THEN the upper and lower tracks swap places so as to maintain the same channel allocation.
IF one or other channel is allocated "mono" and the other channel is allocated left or right, then something happens.

[steve]

If there was a "Swap Channels" item, do you think it should only be active on a stereo track

Yes.

If I have three tracks, left above right above mono, and use the drop-down on the third track, what would "Swap channels" do?

I've no idea. Nothing? Swap tracks 1 and 2? Swap tracks 2 and 3? Swap tracks 1 and 3?

[Gale Andrews]

If there was a "Swap Channels" item, do you think it should only be active on a stereo track

Yes.

If I have three tracks, left above right above mono, and use the drop-down on the third track, what would "Swap channels" do?

I've no idea. Nothing? Swap tracks 1 and 2? Swap tracks 2 and 3? Swap tracks 1 and 3?

I think it would be greyed out. Chosen on track 2, it would swap tracks 2 and 3; chosen on track 1 it would swap tracks 1 and 2. The assumption would be that it was most useful for stereo pairs and "might" make people with right above left realise that Make Stereo Track would not do what they want.

I agree the case for it being active on single tracks is weaker than being active only on a stereo track.


Gale