Audacity Forum

I'd like to have an Option in the Preference menu to turn off the automatic Label edit mode. It is really annoying in combination with a Screen Reader.
It all wouldn't be a Problem when the edit fields were implemented as form fields like they appear in a web browser or a Dialog box.
The Screen Reader has two sounds that indicate that edit mode is on or off. Now you have to press space bar and hope that the Sound will Play - if you wanted that.
I can't understand that the edit mode is the preferred choice. I normally do not Change the text a hundred times but rather want to Play or Loop the Label along with applying some effects.
I've got the Feeling that Labels fulfill to many Tasks.
They serve as a replacement for CD markers, as Region identifiers for editing, as subtitles, as Karaoke texts and so on.
That's why for every user another behaviour is desireable and we never can quench those Needs for each one individually.
To use tab and shift tab - if in "edit mode" or not - would for me be the most natural behaviour. Ninety nine percent of the programs out there function in this manner.
Control + tab is rather preserved for switching Tabs in Dialog boxes. But I could very well see that it Switches between Label tracks as well.

Gale Andrews wrote:

1. Click in a label to open it (focus is in the label track)
2. For example, type ALT, then type C, then type A to open Amplify, then ENTER to amplify to 0 dB (focus moves to audio track)
3. SPACE to play the track (while the label is open for editing)
4. DOWN arrow and type in the label "Amplified to 0 dB".

Ah, I see now. But I notice:

1. When no other tracks are selected, a click on a region label selects that region in all tracks, but TAB to the label selects only in the label track. Do you want to defend that difference?
2. After I TAB to a label, I can toggle the selected state of any other track with shift-click in the bottom left of the track control area, then I can do what is described.
3. I can't get that effect mouselessly with up and down arrow keys and then return. The arrow keys do nothing when I have a text cursor. I can get to the label text with arrows but I can't leave.
4. Shift or Ctrl-Shift and mouse clicks in an audio track change the selected region while NOT removing the label cursor. So it's possible for the selected region not to coincide with the extent of the selected label.

I have also discovered that playing the audio for successive labels without using mouse clicks -- my main wish for now -- CAN be done! TAB to a label, then Alt-ra or Alt-rl, and then use Alt-rs (space won't work) to stop. There aren't the nicest keystrokes and I can't reassign them, and (as with crl-alt-k) not easily discoverable, but I am pleased to find them.

Now I suppose I could use Preferences to reassign play/stop from SPACE to a modified key, and that would work without opening menus and eliminate a keystroke. Of course that adds a modifier key whenever else.

Paul L wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:

steve wrote:If you click in a label text area, the label is "selected" and "open for text editing". If you press "Enter", the the label is still "selected" but is not open for text editing.

If we can make it easier to select a label without opening it for editing, this distinction should be clearer.
Gale

Well "dually" to what I said above, after "Enter" the label is not in any sense "selected," but the selected region just happens to be coincidental with the label's extent. That's how I see it.

Gale Andrews wrote:I''m beginning to think letting UP leave the label open could be more useful, not confusing, and possibly "purer".

I think this is a (minor) bug, similar to the (now fixed) bug 636.
In projects with multiple tracks, you can UP/DOWN between tracks, regardless of whether a label is open or not, until you get to a label track. As soon as you hit a label track UP/DOWN are captured, but not used, by the label text field.

Attached is a patch to fix this behaviour. It allows the UP/DOWN keys to move focus to the track above/below.

Robert J. H. wrote:The Screen Reader has two sounds that indicate that edit mode is on or off.

It would be useful to know how the above patch behaves when a screen reader is used.

Robert J. H. wrote:Now you have to press space bar and hope that the Sound will Play - if you wanted that.

With the above patch, if you are editing label text, you can UP to the audio track and then press Space to play. Then you can DOWN back to the label track and continue editing the text.

Paul L wrote:When no other tracks are selected, a click on a region label selects that region in all tracks, but TAB to the label selects only in the label track

I think that is "the right thing". Tabbing to the next labelled region should not change which tracks are selected or not selected, but does highlight why we need to be able to move UP/DOWN from the label track.

Paul L wrote:After I TAB to a label, I can toggle the selected state of any other track with shift-click in the bottom left of the track control area, then I can do what is described.
I can't get that effect mouselessly with up and down arrow keys and then return.

You can with the above patch applied.

Paul L wrote:Shift or Ctrl-Shift and mouse clicks in an audio track change the selected region while NOT removing the label cursor. So it's possible for the selected region not to coincide with the extent of the selected label.

Clearly yes, as illustrated by your example.

Paul L wrote:Well "dually" to what I said above, after "Enter" the label is not in any sense "selected,"

"Selected" just means that it is within the highlighted "Selected" region. While selected, it can be deleted.
We are currently missing a way to open a selected label for editing the text, other than by clicking in the label. This is not a totally straightforward task because there could be multiple labels in the same place. I think we need a key press that will open the label text for the first selected label (by label index - the same as the Label Editor order).

steve wrote:Attached is a patch to fix this behaviour. It allows the UP/DOWN keys to move focus to the track above/below.

Do we also want the NumPad UP/Down to do the same?
I've not included that, but (I expect) it could easily be added.

Robert J. H. wrote:Control + tab is rather preserved for switching Tabs in Dialog boxes. But I could very well see that it Switches between Label tracks as well.

Was that the suggestion?

I thought the suggestion for ctrl-tab and ctrl-shift-tab was that they cycle through labels of the selected label track but not opening their text fields. You could hit space to play and then resume tabbing without losing your place.

Call me fussy but I'd like to be able to assign keys so that I can do most of my work with fewest keystrokes and the left hand only on the keys and the right never leaving the mouse: I'd like to leave the arrow keys and Enter out of it, they are a reach.

Paul L wrote:Call me fussy but I'd like to be able to assign keys so that I can do most of my work with fewest keystrokes and the left hand only on the keys and the right never leaving the mouse:

In which case, Shift+Mouse Click is available?

We need to balance the needs of all users, (including VI users that can't use a mouse).

steve wrote:Do we also want the NumPad UP/Down to do the same?

Scratch that suggestion.
NumPad UP/Down does not work on here whether in a label track or any other type of track.

steve wrote:

Paul L wrote:Call me fussy but I'd like to be able to assign keys so that I can do most of my work with fewest keystrokes and the left hand only on the keys and the right never leaving the mouse:

In which case, Shift+Mouse Click is available?

We need to balance the needs of all users, (including VI users that can't use a mouse).

You suggest the mouse, only to qualify that suggestion.

Personally, I'd like to use the mouse in the audio tracks but not rely on it in the label tracks, or at most, pick inside the track (not in a label) and TAB to the next label.

As I explained before, I am experimenting with Analysis aids in Nyquist that calculate useful selections for me, but make lots of little labels that I can't even pick with the mouse unless I first stretch the label track vertically, or zoom in. But I can reach them with TAB even when their tags fall off the bottom of the view.

What Robert says is right, there is some overloading of labels. I'd like to use them as navigational aids, I'd like all my single letter shortcuts for audio editing to work freely intermixed with TABs for navigation, and I don't like it that text fields open up and eat my shortcut keystrokes. If you give me a Preference for the behavior I like, while other users who like labels for other purposes can also work in their accustomed way -- then I will be satisfied.

Maybe, for completeness, my alternative behavior requires some command and keystroke that explicitly give the focus to the text of the selected label when that is what I want, but that will not be what I want most of the time or by default when I TAB to it.

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:I''m beginning to think letting UP leave the label open could be more useful, not confusing, and possibly "purer".

I think this is a (minor) bug, similar to the (now fixed) bug 636.
In projects with multiple tracks, you can UP/DOWN between tracks, regardless of whether a label is open or not, until you get to a label track. As soon as you hit a label track UP/DOWN are captured, but not used, by the label text field.

Attached is a patch to fix this behaviour. It allows the UP/DOWN keys to move focus to the track above/below.

LabelTrack_ReleaseUpDownKeys.patch

Thanks, Steve. I opened a bug report and attached your patch:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640 .

The patch seems successful to me.

While we are at it, would VI users prefer UP and DOWN cycled in the specified direction rather than coming to a halt at the top or bottom respectively of the track table? In other words, when UP reaches the topmost track, the next press of UP goes to the bottom track and cycles upwards from there?

steve wrote:

Robert J. H. wrote:The Screen Reader has two sounds that indicate that edit mode is on or off.

It would be useful to know how the above patch behaves when a screen reader is used.

I don't hear or understand what is meant here when using NVDA, but I've uploaded a patched executable at http://gaclrecords.org.uk/test-builds/a ... ug_253.zip .

To use this, quit Audacity, extract "audacity label capture and bug 253.exe" to your Audacity installation folder, then run the patched exe from that folder instead of your usual audacity executable.


Gale

Gale Andrews wrote: While we are at it, would VI users prefer UP and DOWN cycled in the specified direction rather than coming to a halt at the top or bottom respectively of the track table? In other words, when UP reaches the topmost track, the next press of UP goes to the bottom track and cycles upwards from there?

Gale

I'm not VI, but there is already an editing preference for that. The checkbox in Tracks preferences for ' "Move track focus" cycles repeatedly through tracks'