Audacity Forum

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:That would be very intuitive but would mean that you could no longer select the whole label track that way. I don't think that is a big loss since you can do that by clicking on the label track control panel.

You could also click in any gap between labels, or after the last label, so there are a few available options for the user to choose, depending on which is more convenient at the time.

There are also people who want a way to click to select between labels, though.

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:We have some way to go before it will seem automatic to check if there is a right-click menu in Audacity

but I think we agree that it is something that we want?

Yes, and I think each new feature added should consider right-click just as it should consider buttons and main menus.

steve wrote:and possibly "Split Labels"?

I don't know what would be useful there that wouldn't be better done manually.

Split into [n] equal-sized labels?

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:I assume we would want an option to "Merge to left" and "Merge to right" which would determine which labels moved.

If we have a simple and convenient way to copy and paste label text, this may not be too much of an issue.

What I meant was if we allow e.g. two non-touching labels that are fully selected over to be merged, that can be done by moving the first label to the second label, or the second label to the first label.


Gale

Gale Andrews wrote:

steve wrote:and possibly "Split Labels"?

I don't know what would be useful there that wouldn't be better done manually.

How do you currently split a label (manually or otherwise).
For example, if I have labelled a region and then decide that it really needs to be 2 or 3 consecutive labels, how do I split the original label?
I'm not aware of a way to do that (other than the rather clumsy work-around of splitting the audio at the current label position so as to mark the original start/end points, then deleting/modifying the original label and adding a new one, then joining the splits back together).

Gale Andrews wrote:What I meant was if we allow e.g. two non-touching labels that are fully selected over to be merged, that can be done by moving the first label to the second label, or the seconf label to the first label.

OK, I understand. Even one way of doing that (for example, merging the labels and using the label text of the first label) would be better than no way to do it. If the user wanted the text from the 2nd label (or 3rd, 4th, 5th label) then a simple "Copy label text" / "Paste label text" would make it relatively painless.

steve wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:

steve wrote:and possibly "Split Labels"?

I don't know what would be useful there that wouldn't be better done manually.

How do you currently split a label (manually or otherwise).
For example, if I have labelled a region and then decide that it really needs to be 2 or 3 consecutive labels, how do I split the original label?

If point labels were sufficient (which they usually are for Export Multiple), I would click in the label, BACKSPACE until I had removed the label, then Analyze > Regular interval Labels and split by number of labels.



Gale

Gale Andrews wrote:If point labels were sufficient (which they usually are for Export Multiple)

I was thinking in terms of region labels.
For example if a song had been labelled to show verses and choruses (possibly with lyrics as the label text), but then the user wanted to split one of the labels which previously marked a chorus + "middle 8" into separate "chorus" and "middle 8" region labels, or wanted to split a "verse" label into "Verse 1". "Verse 1 (refrain)".

I'm just catching up on this thread that I started. I did not know that Ctrl-Alt-K does what I want. It is good to know. It makes sense by analogy with what it does to audio tracks, but it is not easily "discoverable."

There was mention of double-click in the label track selecting all of it. But when I try that, no matter where I point, the effect is to select everything from the start of the track to the end of the last label. That is weird and I'm not sure of the usefulness.

I want to raise the navigation issues again. Maybe they need another thread.

Maybe my needs are peculiar, but I have been experimenting with some plug-ins for speech segmentation that create lots of little labels that touch without overlapping. For instance: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 64#p211364

Once I generate these labels, I want to play each in succession with space or looping shift-space to see how good my segmentation was. And this simple task is maddening to do.

Some of the labels don't appear in the label track unless I resize it vertically, because they are so closely spaced. I'd rather not use the mouse and have good left handed keyboard shortcuts and leave screen space for studying the spectrogram. I can reach those invisible labels with TAB, no problem.

But to play? Hit space? Darnit, no, that edits label text when I don''t want to. I must remember to hit return, then space. Good, there is my preview.

But now, to reach the next label? I hit TAB, and I am taken back to the first label on the track!

May I suggest then:

• TAB and shift-TAB take you to the label next or previous in tab order to the the MOST RECENTLY SELECTED label (if that has not been deleted), no matter which track has focus. I think TAB is not otherwise bound when an audio track is focused. This is simpler behavior to define, than a deduction of the correct label from the currently selected region. The corresponding parts of all selected tracks become selected.
• What key makes sense to take you back TO the last selected? I don't know, TAB then Shift-TAB will do.
• I'd like the default behavior when navigating to a label NOT to be selection of the text field. There should be some notion of "selected label" distinct from that. Some key (if it exists, I haven't found it) should take you INTO the text field of the selected label if that's what you want. Enter is already taken for other purposes, but is Modifier + Enter free? Or a separate binding for numpad-Enter? (But not everyone has that key.)
• Likewise I'd be a bit happier if single click on a label makes it the "selected label" but it takes a double-click to open the text field.

In short I'm more often interested in hearing what a label covers than in changing its text and I'd like an interface designed around that assumption. Maybe you don't agree.

Paul L wrote:There was mention of double-click in the label track selecting all of it.

That was a proposed enhancement. We don't yet have that.

Paul L wrote: I want to play each in succession with space or looping shift-space to see how good my segmentation was. And this simple task is maddening to do.

I agree.
I think that having "play" buttons for each label in the label editor would help a lot, but I agree that it would also be good to have a less painful way to select and play clips without opening the Label editor.

Paul L wrote:I hit TAB, and I am taken back to the first label on the track!

I've no idea who decided on that behaviour or why. I agree that it would be much more convenient to be able to skip from one label to the next, or previous label.

I agree too with the objective of making it easier to select and play labeled audio without using the Play button. But I have some reservations about two of your solutions.

Paul L wrote: TAB and shift-TAB take you to the label next or previous in tab order to the the MOST RECENTLY SELECTED label (if that has not been deleted), no matter which track has focus. I think TAB is not otherwise bound when an audio track is focused. This is simpler behavior to define, than a deduction of the correct label from the currently selected region. The corresponding parts of all selected tracks become selected.

I find it hard to envisage how Audacity would keep track of the last selected label. Suppose the label had been moved, let alone deleted.

I would assume the visually impaired would find it much more reassuring to know that TAB moved to a label in the focused track.

The Wiki Feature Requests votes are for

When the label track has focus, TAB or SHIFT + TAB should always navigate to the nearest label (from the current cursor point in the direction specified)

To me that seems more deliverable, generally useful and less confusing.

Paul L wrote: [*] I'd like the default behavior when navigating to a label NOT to be selection of the text field. There should be some notion of "selected label" distinct from that. Some key (if it exists, I haven't found it) should take you INTO the text field of the selected label if that's what you want. Enter is already taken for other purposes, but is Modifier + Enter free? Or a separate binding for numpad-Enter? (But not everyone has that key.)

ENTER combinations wouldn't be modifiable using Keyboard Preferences because ENTER would close the Preferences.

F2 would be the "normal" Windows and Linux key to open a name for text editing, but that would stop you using switching to Envelope Tool if a label was "selected" but not "open".

Others who do want to TAB through and edit label names would be very inconvenienced, so I wouldn't support your idea as is. I would say we want a CTRL modifier for TAB and SHIFT + TAB that does not open the label for editing.

Paul L wrote:Likewise I'd be a bit happier if single click on a label makes it the "selected label" but it takes a double-click to open the text field.

That's been suggested several times and seems very reasonable. It needs to be considered vis-a-vis other suggestions such as double-click in a region (outside the label text) selects the label, or clicking on a widget does that. On the whole I favour changing double-click to select but not open the label, and single-click in the label text opens it for editing as now.

Someone I'm corresponding with on [email protected] is extremely keen to have a Play button on each label, but that seems very costly in screen estate.

Could we have right-click "Play Label" under certain circumstances? A lot depends on what we do about providing a way to select a label without opening it. If we allow that single-click underneath the text of a region label only places the cursor as now, then right-click while hovering there > Play Label could be handy.


Gale

I would be satisfied with some distinction between single and double clicking, and with F2 or some other to open the label field.

As for resuming TAB key navigation, consider the case of multiple label tracks. Present behavior is that each track defines a separate cycle of TAB order, which is reasonable. If TAB will also return me to navigating labels from focus in an audio track, which cycle should I enter? I'd rather be back on the last label track that I visited and not necessarily at the closest label out of all labels in all tracks.

Gale Andrews wrote:Could we have right-click "Play Label" under certain circumstances?

If the label is selected and not open for text editing, spacebar will play the selected label, so I don't think we need a right click for that.

We could perhaps have "Play this label" as an option in the Right Click text editing menu, which may occasionally be useful - I don't think that this would offer a lot of benefits because it is almost as easy to just press "Enter -> Space", but it would make sense if there were play buttons for each label in the Label Editor as it would then just be providing menu access to the same function.

We could also perhaps have: "Right Click > Play Selected Labels" for multiple labels. It would only be available when not editing label text, and at least one label was selected. This could be mirrored in the Label Editor with a "Play Selected" (selected labels) button.