Updating Sound/Silence Finder

[steve]

Silence Finder is basically an Audacity 1.x plug-in and is showing its age.
Sound Finder was introduced as an experiment and at the time it was thought that it would eventually be merged with Silence Finder.
The code base of Sound Finder is essentially the same (ancient code) as Silence Finder with some extra bits bolted on.
Both plug-ins fall short of current standards.

Whether we retain two effects, or consolidate the features into one, there needs to be decisions made about what features are needed, and if we retain two effects, which features go in which effect.

To get the ball rolling, here is a very simple (too simple) plug-in that can mark either sounds or silences.

This version clearly does not have enough features to replace the current versions, but I am putting it forward as a possible basis for a new version.
The questions are:

1. What features need to be added to make this a viable, modern replacement for Sound / Silence finder?
2. Can these features be incorporated into one plug-in without it becoming too complicated for ordinary users?

[Edgar]

The current behaviors:
Silence Finder: Place a Point Label a specified distance in front of the "end" of the silence.
Sound Finder: Place a Region Label which marks the start and end of every soundbite as set off by silences and/or the beginning or end of the track.

The behavior of the new effect:
Sound finding mode: Place a Point Label at the start of every soundbite (as defined above).
Silence finding mode: Place a Point Label at the beginning of every silence (NOT) ignoring the end of the track.

For myself, combining the two behaviors into one Effect would be completely acceptable. The only problem I see is how to code the GUI. My understanding is that with a Nyquist plug-in we cannot redraw the GUI when the user chooses between "Sound" and "Silence".

Given that the current new behavior in the Sound finding mode is to place a Point Label and the old behavior was to place a Region Label, and given that both of these behaviors might be useful, I think it needs a switch to allow the user to choose.

I did not like the original Silence Finder's behavior of placing the label at a specified distance in front of the end of the silence; I rewrote the effect in C++ and have it so that it places the label in the center of the silence. I think the user should have this as an option as well.

[steve]

Thanks very much Edgar.

Silence Finder: Place a Point Label a specified distance in front of the "end" of the silence.

Strange isn't it
Let me read that again;
"A specified distance in front of the end of the silence" -
In other words, "a specified distance before the sound"?

My understanding is that with a Nyquist plug-in we cannot redraw the GUI when the user chooses between "Sound" and "Silence".

That is correct.
We can't change the GUI when the user chooses between "Point Label" and "Region Label" either.
Nyquist plug-ins have fixed (hard coded) interfaces.

I think it needs a switch to allow the user to choose. (between point labels and region labels)

+1

I rewrote the effect in C++ and have it so that it places the label in the center of the silence. I think the user should have this as an option as well.

+1

[waxcylinder]

Thanks very much Edgar.

Silence Finder: Place a Point Label a specified distance in front of the "end" of the silence.

Strange isn't it
Let me read that again;
"A specified distance in front of the end of the silence" -
In other words, "a specified distance before the sound"?

I've always presumed it was done that way to provide a lead-in ( 2 secs ? ) prior to the "song" starting .

I'd be more than happy to see these two tools combined - but remember that I am not a user of this stuff. I (and Bill IIRC) thimk thaere are easier and more accurate ways of placing labels for the start of LP tracks. For a start I can't be bothered dealing with all the false-positives ...

As a minimum, I am hoping that in doing this work we can get rid of the silly slider that is used as an on/off switch in the Sound Finder GUI

Peter.

[steve]

I've always presumed it was done that way to provide a lead-in ( 2 secs ? ) prior to the "song" starting .

I presume so to.
So really it is "marking before a sound".

I (and Bill IIRC) thimk thaere are easier and more accurate ways of placing labels for the start of LP tracks.

You mean like, "Click - Ctrl+B"
(that's how I do it too, but apparently some users prefer to use Silence Finder)

As a minimum, I am hoping that in doing this work we can get rid of the silly slider that is used as an on/off switch in the Sound Finder GUI

+1

[steve]

I've always presumed it was done that way to provide a lead-in ( 2 secs ? ) prior to the "song" starting .

So are you saying that:
For point labels, there needs to be an option to select "where" within the detected region the label should go?

Edgar suggested that "in the middle" of the detected region (silence) should be an option.
Currently it marks (approximately) the start of the detected region.

[steve]

So far, no one has mentioned that version 0.1 creates far more labels than the Silence Finder or Sound Finder.

[Edgar]

I did not tested with real-world audio. We have a piece of hardware in the studio which automatically detects the silence between tracks on a tape, record, CD or other input and splits it into separate tracks burned onto a CD; I would probably use this hardware if I had a huge library to digitize in the future. I have now completed transferring all of my vintage storage to digital so I won't really be using this effect very often and as I say, I rewrote it in C++ so that I could use it from the command line.

[steve]

We have a piece of hardware in the studio which automatically detects the silence between tracks on a tape, record, CD or other input and splits it into separate tracks

How often does that give "false positives" (splits where there shouldn't be splits)?

[Edgar]

We have a piece of hardware in the studio which automatically detects the silence between tracks on a tape, record, CD or other input and splits it into separate tracks

How often does that give "false positives" (splits where there shouldn't be splits)?

It does give these false positives in music with "railroad track" silences (Doo Wop, Concert Band etc.) and, unlike Audacity, there is no user control of the variables. "How often" is hard to quantify--too dependent on music style. It would be a real mess if it were less easy to determine the number of original tracks and the number on the new CD. Then there is the problem with defective blank CD media! One benefit over recording in Audacity is a simpler hardware chain--getting the audio from my mixer to Audacity adds a few more black boxes between the source and the destination.