History window slowness

Help for Audacity on Windows.
Forum rules
ImageThis forum is for Audacity on Windows.
Please state which version of Windows you are using,
and the exact three-section version number of Audacity from "Help menu > About Audacity".


Audacity 1.2.x and 1.3.x are obsolete and no longer supported. If you still have those versions, please upgrade at https://www.audacityteam.org/download/.
The old forums for those versions are now closed, but you can still read the archives of the 1.2.x and 1.3.x forums.
Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
Posts: 41761
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

History window slowness

Post by Gale Andrews » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:28 am

Split from http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 56#p295956
DickN wrote:Another (probably unrelated) observation: 2.1.2 (RC1, RC2 and this one) often takes a very long time to present the History window and to terminate. When terminating, the Audacity window's contents are cleared fairly promptly but the skeleton of the window remains sometimes for minutes before the program finishes shutting down, even if the project was recently saved.
I don't know what your usual workflow is. How many Undo levels do you have? Are the levels of large data size, or small, like adding a label?

Does discarding maximum levels before quitting Audacity make the History window disappear more quickly?

I recall the History was not showing size of data correctly a few versions ago and fixes were made for that.

Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual

DickN
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:03 pm
Operating System: Windows Vista

Re: 2.1.2 RC1 & RC2 Update Display during Play problem

Post by DickN » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:14 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:
DickN wrote:Another (probably unrelated) observation: 2.1.2 (RC1, RC2 and this one) often takes a very long time to present the History window and to terminate. When terminating, the Audacity window's contents are cleared fairly promptly but the skeleton of the window remains sometimes for minutes before the program finishes shutting down, even if the project was recently saved.
I don't know what your usual workflow is. How many Undo levels do you have? Are the levels of large data size, or small, like adding a label?
I typically accumulate hundreds of undo levels before I discard any, which I usually do only if I'm running low on free disk space. Currently I'm not (free >14 GB). Most of the levels are 0 bytes, for labels. Those that aren't may add up to a significant percentage of the length of the project. I make the 1st label track, RTags, while recording on the laptop. I seldom edit on the laptop (screen's too small). My first step in editing is to make another label track, Sections, and label each section. This is the prototype for all label tracks for export. It also contains a tag for each section that will be converted to Mono, so the file names contain the tags and I can convert them later. A third label track, TTags, is for documenting every effect I've applied, and save the pertinent data for every region where I've checked the noise spectrum. The first thing I do before operating on any audio is High-pass filter the whole recording (20 Hz, 6 dB/octave), so if I'm in the first editing session for the project that step will always be full length. There is always one very long portion that will be Mono, so I convert that one before doing any filtering on it. I generally apply filters to the rest of the sections while they're still in the Stereo track because some filters cross section boundaries. The finished project has 1 Stereo track and 1 Mono track, plus TTags, RTags, Sections, and another label track for each export.
Gale Andrews wrote:Does discarding maximum levels before quitting Audacity make the History window disappear more quickly?
I assume you meant the Audacity window "skeleton", as I called it. Guess I'll have to try it and see. I did notice that that long delay to display the History window only happens once. After that, it displays reasonably promptly. Similar behavior the first time I create a label.

[EDIT]
Tried it... There were 190 undo levels. It took about 30 sec to undo 180 levels and then about 8 sec to close Audacity. So my answer is Yes, the window "skeleton" disappears quite a lot faster after undoing history.
[/EDIT]

This reminds me - Not long ago, History showed the gain value for Amplify. I kinda miss that. I apply Fade by dB after I finish all the level adjustments, so it's rather useful to have the correct gain values logged in my TTags. Unfortunately, I sometimes forget what the gain was by the time Amplify finishes on a long section, and I've gotten used to checking History to find it. I think Amplify is the only effect that can't tell me the last parameter(s) I used.

- DickN

Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
Posts: 41761
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: 2.1.2 RC1 & RC2 Update Display during Play problem

Post by Gale Andrews » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:11 pm

When is the slowness opening History occurring? If you launch Audacity and open History, how long do you wait? If you perform 200 actions that are recorded in History without having History open and then open it, how long do you wait?

I don't think History was slow in recent previous versions of Audacity. Have you noticed History slowing up in 2.1.2 or 2.1.1?

Audacity itself will be slow if there are many tracks or long tracks, so it can be hard to distinguish that effect from Undo slowness.
DickN wrote:Not long ago, History showed the gain value for Amplify. I kinda miss that. [...] I think Amplify is the only effect that can't tell me the last parameter(s) I used.
I don't think any of the built-in effects that can show their parameters in History now do so. This went wrong in 2.1.1.


Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual

DickN
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:03 pm
Operating System: Windows Vista

History window slowness

Post by DickN » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:21 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:When is the slowness opening History occurring? If you launch Audacity and open History, how long do you wait? If you perform 200 actions that are recorded in History without having History open and then open it, how long do you wait?

I don't think History was slow in recent previous versions of Audacity. Have you noticed History slowing up in 2.1.2 or 2.1.1?
Guess I should have posted anew instead of editing my old post. Deleting 180 levels of History took about 30 seconds. The History window is slow only the first time I open it. It could be that back when Amplify showed its Gain value there I opened it more often and so didn't notice how long it could take in previous versions. Next session I'll try opening it right after launching and again right after loading the project and then see how long it takes later on.

I recall recently (with 2.1.2) undoing several levels via History, having not previously opened the History window. Disregarding the time to open the window, it seemed the individual undo's took much longer than they used to (which was almost no time). Later on in the same project, undo's went faster.

I believe Windows File Indexing can be a factor if files are accessed more than once. The first time I open a project that I've transferred from the laptop it takes quite a while to load the project. Subsequent times, the same project opens in a second or two, and it's not due to any huge amount of deletion during the editing session. This is true even if the computer has been shut down between sessions, and it applies to all Audacity versions.

- DickN

DickN
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:03 pm
Operating System: Windows Vista

Re: 2.1.2 RC1 & RC2 Update Display during Play problem

Post by DickN » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:06 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:When is the slowness opening History occurring? If you launch Audacity and open History, how long do you wait? If you perform 200 actions that are recorded in History without having History open and then open it, how long do you wait?

I don't think History was slow in recent previous versions of Audacity. Have you noticed History slowing up in 2.1.2 or 2.1.1?
I did the experiment I described in my previous post, and it seems doing the experiment changes the result:

launch Audacity 2.1.2
History: immediate
Load project (work in progress from yesterday): 1 sec
History: skeleton immediately appears, then 90 sec. to fill window (size=2.3 GB)

Close Audacity: immediate

Launch Audacity 2.1.1 [EDITED, was "2.1.0"]
History: immediate (new proj 0 bytes)
Load project: < 1 sec
History: 1 sec (2.3 GB)
Close Audacity: immediate

Launch 2.1.2
Load project: 1 sec
History: 1 sec (2.3 GB)

2.3 GB matches size of the _data folder.

Note the difference between the 1st time 2.1.2 displayed History with the project loaded (90 sec) and all other times, with both 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 (1 sec). Windows File Indexing could make a difference of this magnitude, but I don't see how that would get involved here.

[edited Jan 15: I had written "2.1.0", but my shortcut was pointing to version 2.1.1 so that's what I was using for comparison]

- DickN

Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
Posts: 41761
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: History window slowness

Post by Gale Andrews » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:24 pm

DickN wrote:I believe Windows File Indexing can be a factor if files are accessed more than once. The first time I open a project that I've transferred from the laptop it takes quite a while to load the project. Subsequent times, the same project opens in a second or two, and it's not due to any huge amount of deletion during the editing session. This is true even if the computer has been shut down between sessions, and it applies to all Audacity versions.
I think the indexer runs when creating, modifying or deleting a file in an indexed location. So I'm not sure indexing is the explanation unless you move the project just before opening it.

I rarely search inside files and use a fast Master File Table search for file names, so the Indexer is a wasteful performance hit for me and I have indexing off on all my drives.

If you have a Solid State Drive you should think of the impact of Indexing on the SDD's lifespan. Move the Search Index from the Solid State Drive to a Hard Disk Drive if you have a hard drive as well.


Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual

Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
Posts: 41761
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: History window slowness

Post by Gale Andrews » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:46 pm

DickN wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:When is the slowness opening History occurring? If you launch Audacity and open History, how long do you wait? If you perform 200 actions that are recorded in History without having History open and then open it, how long do you wait?

I don't think History was slow in recent previous versions of Audacity. Have you noticed History slowing up in 2.1.2 or 2.1.1?
I did the experiment I described in my previous post, and it seems doing the experiment changes the result:

launch Audacity 2.1.2
History: immediate
Load project (work in progress from yesterday): 1 sec
History: skeleton immediately appears, then 90 sec. to fill window (size=2.3 GB)

Close Audacity: immediate

Launch Audacity 2.1.1 [EDITED, was "2.1.0"]
History: immediate (new proj 0 bytes)
Load project: < 1 sec
History: 1 sec (2.3 GB)
Close Audacity: immediate

Launch 2.1.2
Load project: 1 sec
History: 1 sec (2.3 GB)

2.3 GB matches size of the _data folder.

Note the difference between the 1st time 2.1.2 displayed History with the project loaded (90 sec) and all other times, with both 2.1.1 and 2.1.2 (1 sec).
So what happens if you move in another large project from your laptop, but open it first in 2.1.1 then repeat the above tests?

Do you have older Audacity versions you can test with, say 2.0.6 or 2.1.0? You can get them here: http://www.oldfoss.com/Audacity.html.

Windows Prefetch may cause Audacity to launch faster next time due to using RAM rather than disk, but I don't "think" that caches data from documents the app uses, just data and DLL's the app needs to launch.



Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual

DickN
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:03 pm
Operating System: Windows Vista

Re: History window slowness

Post by DickN » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:03 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:So what happens if you move in another large project from your laptop, but open it first in 2.1.1 then repeat the above tests?
Will find out next week...
Gale Andrews wrote:Do you have older Audacity versions you can test with, say 2.0.6 or 2.1.0?
Yes, I have 2.0.5. Do you have a preference whether to use 2.1.1 or 2.0.5 for the test above? For the test, I've been launching Audacity and then opening the project, rather than passing the .aup file to Audacity.exe. That way I can separate the launch time from the project load time. I think 2.1.2 RC2 is currently the default if I just double-click on an .aup file, but y'know, I'm starting to lose track...

BTW, I found out why I'd been having problems with multiple versions (this goes back in history and has no relevance to this topic). I'd been using folder names with dots in them in 'Program Files (x86)'. Dots are allowed in folder names, but inside this folder they cause the offending folder to be skipped in the "open with" list. In general, having dots in folder names or possibly extra dots in file names causes Windows to accumulate lists of unassigned file types in the registry. The project cataloging convention I've been using requires them for my batch scripts to work, and I have years of archives to rename (I archive whole projects) were I to change that convention now, so I just run CCleaner once in a while to clean up after myself.
Gale Andrews wrote:Windows Prefetch may cause Audacity to launch faster next time due to using RAM rather than disk, but I don't "think" that caches data from documents the app uses, just data and DLL's the app needs to launch.
The project opens quickly even if the computer has been turned off since it was last opened, so it can't be due to caching in RAM. It might, however, affect the test results I reported because, according to the Wikipedia article, it looks like anything the app reads in the 1st 10 seconds may get cached.

I have only 4GB of RAM, so I'd squeeze out most of the cached data before I finished editing. Resource Monitor says I'm using 50% of my RAM right now with Audacity, Notepad and Firefox running. I haven't applied effects to more than a few MB of audio since I opened the project.

I don't have an SSD.

Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
Posts: 41761
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: History window slowness

Post by Gale Andrews » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:02 pm

DickN wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:Do you have older Audacity versions you can test with, say 2.0.6 or 2.1.0?
Yes, I have 2.0.5. Do you have a preference whether to use 2.1.1 or 2.0.5 for the test above?
The History changes I recall testing were released in 2.1.1, so you could perhaps test 2.1.1 first.


Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual

DickN
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:03 pm
Operating System: Windows Vista

Re: History window slowness

Post by DickN » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:29 am

So it will be 2.1.1, then 2.1.2, then 2.1.1, right? (i.e., just the reverse of what I did on 1/14)

Or did you want a comparison between 2.1.1 and 2.0.5, i.e., 2.0.5, then 2.1.1, then 2.0.5? (You did ask whether I had 2.0.6 or 2.1.0)

- DickN

Post Reply