Audacity Suddenly Stopped Saving File

[Gale Andrews]

Isn't it the case that most times this error is a Smack The Head moment? Of course, How could I be so stupid?

The filename has two dots in it. OK? [Y|N]
I think we're too quick to include pages of explanation where a simple warning would work.

Clearly the existing warning does not work.

I know Vaughan would agree with you about short messages. But would the above really work? User already thinks two dots in the file name is OK, and there is no reason to disagree because it is perfectly legal. The problem is that Audacity is not adding the format's extension to the end of the dot-ridden file name.


Gale

[kozikowski]

the cost difference

I'm not bit counting. I think the explanations have a high Eyes Glaze Over factor.

Correct me, but Windows users have no idea what a file extension is. I sat behind a crew trying to bring a Win7 Avid machine up with no filename extensions and it was truly painful to watch. "You know, I can solve this in about fifteen seconds. The filenames tell you what they are..." But I can't buck the Production Supervisor.

So any dots they put in are too many. The warning in red?

There is a dot in your filename. OK? [Y/N]

You are clearly doing something wrong unless you're colour-challenged, and it doesn't matter how new you are.

Koz

[kozikowski]

Dueling posts.

Koz

[steve]

Would a warning like this have helped?

I don't expect that, or Ed's alternative would help much.

However, I suspect that most folks who run into this for the first time will be clueless;

So to see a significant reduction in these problems, I think we need to cater for the clueless.
I'm not saying that everyone that runs into this issue is "clueless", but we do have a lot of users with very little computer experience, and they are the most vulnerable to this problem.

The solution that I would suggest is, do away with all of the confusing warning and error messages - make the default as foolproof as possible. Force legal file names and valid file extensions. "Hidden" away in Preferences is one checkbox, that changes the behaviour to "as now" where the default extension is added if none is provided, and no file extension if there is a dot.

[Gale Andrews]

Would a warning like this have helped?

Hi Gale! You know me, always wanting to tinker with the grammar:

Note that I have made the first two sentences ("…Yes…") into a single compound sentence so that there is no punctuation following the quoted filename. I think it makes it slightly less visually confusing. Similarly, in the second paragraph I have removed the spurious comma, again to make it slightly less visually confusing.

OK, I'll buy those two suggestions, thanks.

I have also put the file extension string in quotation marks to make it consistent with all the other quoted strings.

The reason I did not do that is that we would have to add

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(without quotes)

Although essential for novices, some of us could dislike that verbosity.

Could you slip this in as a non-feature/bug fix?

I could propose it. Perhaps I would raise a bugzilla item for the "user confusion" issue, and ask about a rewording of the warning as an interim measure. That could even trigger a desire to add the option after 2.1.0, which I think would be more effective than wording changes on their own.

As for changing the current behavior, I think I would be -1 unless we had a fairly sophisticated system. It would require two buttons and a checkbox: button "Yes" = export with name as-is; button "No" = export appending appropriate extension; checkbox "Always do it this way". Preferences would also need to be extended so that the Warnings pane had an additional entry to control the "Always do this" behavior. I would even prefer a third button: "Maybe" <ha ha> = the current "No" behavior which throws it back into the Export dialog so the user could change the filename (which would be my preferred default). Certainly a new feature.

I don't see it needs to be more than an export-by-export decision, the last decision stored in memory or .cfg e.g:

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[  ]Force standard extension for chosen format

Novices won't understand that message, but don't need to as they will see a warning if they uncheck the box and put dots in the file name. There would be a stronger case for a shorter warning if there was a checkbox.


Gale

[Gale Andrews]

The warning in red?

There is a dot in your filename. OK? [Y/N]

They still think it is OK because they put the dot there in the first place and thought it was "OK".

The solution that I would suggest is, do away with all of the confusing warning and error messages - make the default as foolproof as possible. Force legal file names and valid file extensions.

So faced with

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Dr.Zhivago

when exporting MP3, Audacity writes the following?

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Dr.Zhivago.mp3

That's what I would like by default. I would not want to remove dots from file names (a) because they are "legal" and b) it is unexpected to do that.

"Hidden" away in Preferences is one checkbox, that changes the behaviour to "as now" where the default extension is added if none is provided, and no file extension if there is a dot.

I'd still prefer the checkbox in the Export dialogue (on the grounds that some format extensions may need to be legitimately changed as you said, and there may be more people than we realise already doing that). I would keep the warning (simplified if at all possible).

I would keep the warning (again simplified) even if the control was hidden in Preferences.

If consensus wanted the control in Preferences and no warning, I guess we could try it and see what happened.


Gale

[steve]

So faced with
Dr.Zhivago
when exporting MP3, Audacity writes the following?
Dr.Zhivago.mp3

Yes.
Though if they wrote:

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Dr|Dre asks "why 3/4?" 

they would get something like:

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Dr_Dre asks _why 3/4_.mp3 

on the grounds that some format extensions may need to be legitimately changed as you said, and there may be more people than we realise already doing that

The people that are concerned about what file extension they use are not generally the people that run into this problem.

Even with a "safe" default, we could allow users to manually type a standard file extension that is not the default - for example we could allow an M4A file named:
"OscarPeterson.aac"
without correcting it, but change
"Oscar.Peterson"
to
"Oscar.Peterson.m4a" (because "Peterson" is not a recognised file extension for M4A files and ".m4a" is the default).

[Gale Andrews]

So faced with
Dr.Zhivago
when exporting MP3, Audacity writes the following?
Dr.Zhivago.mp3

Yes.
Though if they wrote:

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Dr|Dre asks "why 3/4?" 

they would get something like:

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Dr_Dre asks _why 3/4_.mp3 

I don't think we need to do that, given it's a standard OS save dialogue. Windows and Linux will error that file name, and on Mac (where that name is legal) we would make it

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Dr|Dre asks "why 3/4?".mp3

Even with a "safe" default, we could allow users to manually type a standard file extension that is not the default - for example we could allow an M4A file named:
"OscarPeterson.aac"
without correcting it, but change
"Oscar.Peterson"
to
"Oscar.Peterson.m4a" (because "Peterson" is not a recognised file extension for M4A files and ".m4a" is the default).

We allow .mp4 and .m4r without correcting it so I suppose we "could" add .aac to that "allowed" list. However given iTunes won't play files with AAC extension it was decided that extension should raise the warning. So if we decide there is no warning, ".aac" would be corrected to ".m4a".

What happens if they type

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Oscar.acc

or

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Oscar.mp5

Do we guess what they meant and correct their typo? For those examples I think users who turn off "forced extension" should receive a warning. Perhaps using our list of approved extensions, the warning might look like

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M4A (AAC) files should have only .m4a or .mp4 or .m4r extension.

Do you still want to export "Oscar.mp5" with .mp5 extension?

[ ]Yes [ ] No

Would that warning style work if we did not add the forced extension option?

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MP3 files should have only .mp3 extension.

Do you still want to export "Dr.Dre" with "Dre" extension?

[ ]Yes [ ] No

I think they would still hit "Yes".


Gale

[steve]

What happens if they type Oscar.acc or Oscar.mp5

"Warning .mp5 is not a valid file extension for MP3 files.
Audacity will append .mp3 to the file name.
Click OK to append .mp3 or CANCEL to
return to the file dialog"


Audacity could apply a simple (though not infallible) test on whether it looks like a typo:
A typo is assumed (and the warning makes sense) if the file name ends in any of:
.Y
.XY
.XXY
.XXXY
where "X" is any character and Y is any printable character.