Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Narrating and Producing Audiobooks.
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The_zatanna
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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by The_zatanna » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Here's the thing,

Robert did do an amazing job with the clip.

But I still have no idea how to achieve that on my own.

Links to the filters I would need, as well as pictures of what switch to move where would be helpful, so that I can master something on my own, and not have to turn to the forum with the same question again ;)

I'm not entirely sure myself about the "pops" or "clicks" when I listen to it on my end both raw and edited, the only thing I can think of if either "mouth clicks" or when certain levels pop too loud past the pop filter.

:|

Robert J. H.
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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by Robert J. H. » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:17 pm

kozikowski wrote:
I still wonder where those infernal clicks come from, it's presumably a property of those snow balls.
I'm not hearing anything. Did you hear problems on Ian's work?

Will the work pass noise without removing them? I noticed a large bump in the Room Tone analysis around 90Hz and Steve's Voice doesn't remove it, but the performance seems to pass -60 noise even with it in.

Koz
Here's an example:
15take1again-clicks.wav
(204.95 KiB) Downloaded 76 times
Yes, Ian's work has those clicks too and that's why isuspect the snow ball mics (or their drivers).
I hope you can hear those clicks too or I'm going to jumb in circles again (like last time with Ian's Tin-can sound).

The 90 Hz bumps are mainly due to the pops.
I'm just trying to design an automatic pop filter for Maria, however, it doesn't seem to work very well yet.

kozikowski
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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:29 am

Let me ask something oblique. What tools and how were they used to determine the number of times Steve's Limiter was applied, and why didn't you just crank the severity of the limiting up and apply it once? Or am I missing something important?

Koz

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by Robert J. H. » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:06 am

kozikowski wrote:Let me ask something oblique. What tools and how were they used to determine the number of times Steve's Limiter was applied, and why didn't you just crank the severity of the limiting up and apply it once? Or am I missing something important?

Koz
I didn't want the soft knee go down into the main signal region.
Limiting to -9 dB would have a long transition possibly down to -18 dB, whereas 3 times -3 dB does only influence the first 12 dB of the original.
The first method pushes the Rms further down and thus you'll effectively have to limit more than you actually wanted and the noise floor comes nearer and nearer...
It's like taking off chips from a stool's legs in order to make it stable. You end up with sitting on the floor if you're unlucky.
Limiting by 3 to 5 dB is probably the best compromise between energy preservation and distortion.
However, I haven't fully tested and perhaps I'm only talking rubbish, it's Steve's plug-in after all.

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:26 am

To work.

Have you ever added a tool or effect to your Audacity? Have you ever added a pre-baked filter to Effect > Equalization?

The ACX process (so far) involves a number of little home-made programs and it's something of an Easter-egg hunt to find them all and install them. I've been keeping notes.

Koz

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:40 am

Limiting by 3 to 5 dB is probably the best compromise between energy preservation and distortion.
I know this immediately gives everyone a bad taste, but how different is this from Effect > Leveler? I was able to get remarkably close to the required density of sound with Effect > Leveler: Moderate. I didn't hear any great leap in harshness or distortion.

Correct me, but all Leveler does is apply a log transfer curve to the work so the gain falls away as the waveform increases. As you increase the desired effect through Light, Moderate, Severe, etc, the curve becomes steeper.

Multiple applications of Severe will produce the aircraft controller voice which is one of the ultimate jobs for a voice that doesn't ever change volume, but you do need some "screechy" filtering to get there.

Koz

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by Robert J. H. » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:24 am

kozikowski wrote:
Limiting by 3 to 5 dB is probably the best compromise between energy preservation and distortion.
I know this immediately gives everyone a bad taste, but how different is this from Effect > Leveler? I was able to get remarkably close to the required density of sound with Effect > Leveler: Moderate. I didn't hear any great leap in harshness or distortion.

Correct me, but all Leveler does is apply a log transfer curve to the work so the gain falls away as the waveform increases. As you increase the desired effect through Light, Moderate, Severe, etc, the curve becomes steeper.

Multiple applications of Severe will produce the aircraft controller voice which is one of the ultimate jobs for a voice that doesn't ever change volume, but you do need some "screechy" filtering to get there.

Koz
A little comparison shows the timbre-modifying nature of the leveller effect.
The sweep goes from 220 Hz to 2200 Hz, from -2 dB to silence.
All corrected sweeps have an Rms value of -7 dB, the original -9.8 dB.
The order is:
- original
- leveller (2 x moderate)
- Steve's Limiter
- My downwards compressor/leveller
comparison.mp3
(47.66 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
The difference between leveller and limiter is that the former changes every single sample value whereas the limiter works more globally, i.e. a whole bunch of samples are attenuated at once.
My leveller works by lowering sequences with high Rms or peak according to their length. This is especially good for voices but not for e.g. organ pads and notes with long tails.

The leveller can sometimes support a weak voice by introducing new harmonics, however, I would only use it on a separate track and mix it with the original.

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:03 am

You seem to have missed the first part of that question.
What tools and how were they used to determine the number of times Steve's Limiter was applied...
Koz

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by kozikowski » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:02 am

Right then.

Part of the application of Steve's Limiter is following it with Effect > Amplify to -3? Or is that only if I'm preparing client delivery?

I accepted the latest submission and ran it through what I perceive to be the accepted process, and I got the -60 noise and the -3 peaks in good order, but I didn't get the high RMS value. It's still-25dB or worse. Are we applying multiple 3dB Steve's filter one after the other? Where do I set the Release Time?

Isn't it the case that the work has to achieve at least -23dB RMS after the peak adjustment to -3dB? Do I perform the Contrast tool measurement and then extrapolate where it's going to end up?

Koz

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Re: Meeting ACX Requirements w/ Audacity

Post by Robert J. H. » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:15 am

Right then.
Part of the application of Steve's Limiter is following it with Effect > Amplify to -3? Or is that only if I'm preparing client delivery?
I think that there are two versions of the same limiter effect. Mine has just the option to bring the level up to 0 dB after completion.
Thus, the multiple applications of the limiter aim for an Rms over -20 dB (ideally -17 dB), followed by a -3 dB amplification eventually.
However, it needs a test mp3 export to determine the actual track gain. I had to set the peak level to -2.7 dB in order to get a mp3 with -3 dB after re-import and decoding.
That's actually the part that annoys me a bit. Firstly, that Acx works with mp3 as base for further encoding and secondly that this format changes the properly set levels so randomly.
I accepted the latest submission and ran it through what I perceive to be the accepted process, and I got the -60 noise and the -3 peaks in good order, but I didn't get the high RMS value. It's still-25dB or worse. Are we applying multiple 3dB Steve's filter one after the other? Where do I set the Release Time?
Do you refer to the "hold" slider? I can't recall right away how the three settings (rise time, fall time and look ahead) are calculated from this single setting. The release time is normally 4 times as long as the attack and the look ahead is the max value of the two.
Isn't it the case that the work has to achieve at least -23dB RMS after the peak adjustment to -3dB? Do I perform the Contrast tool measurement and then extrapolate where it's going to end up?

Koz
Certainly, the -3 dB has to be taken into account.
As I said before, I run my own kind of compression first over it to bring down loud passages, e.g. direct speech and exclamations.
Although it works with Rms levels, some coinciding peaks are sometimes attenuated too, e.g. the audio goes down from 0 to -3.8 dB.
The limiter is then multiple times applied to bring down extraneous peaks. Still, the goal is -15 to -20 dB Rms (from 0 dB peak level seen).
Although the noise removal should be applied early, I usually put it off because such huge Rms changes (10 dB and more) raise the noise level again into audible regions (since the limiter has no noise floor fall-off).
Thus, one has either to reduce the noise level in the beginning with the offset added, or to do the noise reduction twice or to do it in the end, whatever fits best. It surely depends on other effects that are applied inbetween--highpassfiltering, click removal, de-essing, equalization...

Koz, I think you should build up the audiobook checklist as a flow diagram with several questions and the underlying decision branches.

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