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Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:11 pm
by Gale Andrews
kozikowski wrote:Correct me, but unless you go to extraordinary effort, there's only two characters on a keyboard that look anything like "-".
Yes, and NUMPAD_SUBTRACT is the same hyphen-minus U+002D as the key close to Backspace.
However you can paste into file name boxes. People would do that if they were doing repetitive naming.
You can also select other file names as the base for a new name then edit the name in the file name box.
Since you mention NUMPAD_SUBTRACT, perhaps we should say "You can use numbers, upper and lower case letters and the underscore/hyphen-minus or NUMPAD_SUBTRACT key".
Gale
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:31 pm
by Gale Andrews
Theophilus20 wrote:The missing audio is the correct length, but, there appears a flat line in the sections of audio that "Disappears". I can watch the audio being created, and never see anything that would indicate something has happened. But, when i go to save it, a large portion of audio is now a flat line.
If the problem is with the temporary directory, the blue waves would appear immediately when recording but every six seconds or so, when Audacity tries to write the small AU file for the recorded data, the wave that had been recorded so far would be silenced.
To check if this is happening when you record, try zooming out so you can see the waves that have already been recorded.
Theophilus20 wrote:Gale Andrews wrote:Edit > Preferences, choose Directories. Where is the Audacity temporary directory? Do you have permanent permission to write there?
I dunno
Please choose Edit > Preferences, choose "Directories" on the left, then copy and paste what it says in the "Location" box.
steve wrote:The project opens and there are portions of the project that show a flat line instead of the proper waveform
If that happens then you should be seeing a warning about "Missing Audio Data Block Files".
Gale
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:25 pm
by kozikowski
There is another troubleshooting technique where you take the problem upside down. If somebody wrote me a big check and wanted me to produce this error, how would I do it? Without programming Audacity to do that, I don't think I could. Program Audacity to "lose" large contiguous blocks of data at random without throwing an error code would be rough.
There's the Evil Agent theory. I used to work for a large news organization that had an extensive 2-way radio system. The manager of this system would sometimes explain a rare but completely arbitrary and inexplicable radio failure as the action of The Great Signal Sucker in the Sky. Maybe we have a Great Data Sucker on the MoBo?
Which maybe isn't so far-fetched. Have you ever run a memory tester? Run it multiple times, like overnight. Most testers have provision to do that. Memory block errors are supposed to be tested for, but your motherboard has to be set to do it. Leaky memory could cause all sorts of problems especially in Audacity which makes good use of high memory, and possibly the only program you have that does so.
Evil Agent could be a classic virus whose sole purpose it is to destroy your machine. Unless you walked the Audacity install over to the machine on CDs (sneakernet), you had to have connected it to the internet at some time. An unprotected Windows PC connected to the internet is expected to last five minutes.
Have you deleted Audacity and reinstalled it? Control Panel > Add Remove Programs. When you reinstall Audacity it should arrive with a welcoming screen and completely absent any customization you had (take customizing notes).
Since you have an exotic problem, you can get exotic in troubleshooting. Most people compulsively try to make the problem better, but can you make it worse? What happens if you heat the room up to 90 degrees F and do a long capture? A machine should be able to operate in that heat (possibly with fans at full volume). Does yours?
Then there's a less savory option. The forum solves almost all Audacity problems, but it's not 100%. Without live, hands-on troubleshooting and advanced diagnostics, maybe the problem is permanent.
Koz
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:34 pm
by Gale Andrews
kozikowski wrote:Have you deleted Audacity and reinstalled it? Control Panel > Add Remove Programs. When you reinstall Audacity it should arrive with a welcoming screen and completely absent any customization you had (take customizing notes).
Reinstallation will only set Audacity preferences to factory defaults if you check (tick) the "Reset Preferences" box half way through the installation process.
But there is no reason not to try it. It would make the Audacity temporary directory a safe default that you should be able to write to.
Gale
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:02 am
by Theophilus20
kozikowski wrote:The missing audio is the correct length, but, there appears a flat line in the sections of audio that "Disappears". I can watch the audio being created, and never see anything that would indicate something has happened. But, when i go to save it, a large portion of audio is now a flat line.
Just to go over this again, when you create the show, the red sound meters bounce merrily and the blue waves pile up on the timeline absolutely as normal, right?
Yes
You can Stop and then play several parts of the show as a quality control measure and everything plays just fine, yes?
I have never tried to stop it and play any part before.
Then File > Save Project, turn off the machine and go to bed.
The initial "File> Save Project" is where the problem is. That is when the error happens, or at least when i notice it
When you open the Project in the morning, that's when you discover parts of the show have flat-lined? You suggest in several places Audacity records holes in the show and I don't think that's what's happening. I think there some damage in the save process.
But I can't think what.
The machine has no network connection.....
And occasionally, the machine will fail to save anything at all?
What are the messages when it does that?
I will have to screen shot the error messages next time.
Can you see the Hard Drive light and is it flashing madly when the save fails?
No, The machine sets below my line of sight, but i can take a look next time.
Do you ever turn off the machine?
Yes, these are messages from our church, so, the machine is only on for 6 hrs a week
Do you have the machine set to check memory when it wakes up?
No, I do not have it set to run a mem check when it wakes.
That may be a good idea until we figure out what's happening.
Did you build the machine?
Yes
Did you turn on the hard drive failure feature?
Not sure what that is
Did you do a drive inspection at any time? Start > My Computer > C: > Properties > Error Test. I'm doing that from fuzzy memory.
No
Was the machine ever connected on line?
Yes, i keep it up to date with the latest releases by taking it to my house and connecting it.
Does it have virus protection?
Yes, NAV 360
Koz
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:33 am
by kozikowski
You can Stop and then play several parts of the show as a quality control measure and everything plays just fine, yes?
I have never tried to stop it and play any part before.
This is worth doing and it's easy. The next time you press Stop at the end of the event, instead of immediately saving the work, Control-F make sure the whole show is visible (that's the hot keys for Zoom Full) and click in various places down the blue waves and SpaceBar play. This is Spot Checking the performance. Once at the beginning, three or fours places down the show and once at the end. I expect this to work. I don't think the capture is the problem, but this is common practice for any long recording in the industry.
Do you have the machine set to check memory when it wakes up?
No, I do not have it set to run a mem check when it wakes.
When the machine boots, press the keys that let you into the CMOS or BIOS setups. There should be a setting under BOOT that turns memory test on and off or it may be listed under [X] RAPID BOOT. Most machines come selected. You should de-select it and let the machine ripple through a memory test before it starts. Time it once to make sure you know how much earlier you have to arrive to let it go. I think <Escape> bypasses it if you need the machine right away.
Did you turn on the hard drive failure feature?
Not sure what that is
I can't find it right this second, but some drives have a feature where they can detect problems long before you start losing data or music. They signal the motherboard to ring bells, kind of like the Check Engine light on your car, but you have to tell the motherboard to expect it. I may be blowing smoke with this one. I haven't actually done this in a while, but I remember the last three or four SeaGate drives had it.
Did you do a drive inspection at any time? Start > My Computer > C: > Properties > Error Test. I'm doing that from fuzzy memory.
No
That's easy and it's totally worth doing. It's a diagnostic that does a quick error test on your drive and in that same panel, also offers to defragment the drive, although on Win7 that happens automatically. The error test just makes sure that the data listings and the data directory on the drive actually matches the music or shows.
This is the Library and Card Catalog business. You go to the card catalog drawers to look up a book and the cards will tell you where in the vast library they put it. That's how hard drives keep track of where they put things and it's terrifically bad when the information and listings get out of step.
Again, I'm fuzzy on how to get there:
Start > My Computer > right-click on C: > Properties > Tools > Error Testing
You need to fill in some of that for yourself. I just don't remember all the steps. I'm normally a Mac elf.
Koz
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:44 am
by kozikowski
I'm just now paying attention as I wrote that. If you use the machine once a week for an hour, chances are Win7 has never had a chance to automatically service or defragment the drive. There's a remote chance that's where some of your work is going. Audacity will not work reliably into a damaged, full, or highly fragmented drive.
I'm going to get into deep water here. I only had partial administration for a Win7 machine at work and I don't remember all the spells. I think you can just leave the machine on quietly in the corner with the monitor off (do not let it go to Suspend, Sleep or Screen Saver) through 4AM. Someone will correct me, but 4AM is the time set for Win7 to self-inspect its systems and defragment the drive with no help from you at all. Leave it running all night. Maybe a couple of nights.
This is when the Windows Elves check in and tell me what I missed.
Koz
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:59 pm
by Gale Andrews
@Theophilus20: Please choose Edit > Preferences, choose "Directories" on the left, then copy and paste what it says in the "Location" box. It's not hard to do.
Please also zoom out during or after the recording (CTRL + F). Koz and I have both suggested this. Then you can see if the waves are being silenced while you are recording.
Not all BIOS'es have a memory test that you can turn on there. To check memory, click the Windows globe, type "mdsched.exe" (without quotes) in the Search box then click mdsched.exe when it appears in the search results.
I doubt disk fragmentation would be much of a problem on a 9% filled 1 TB drive, but yes if the machine is never idle while it is on, Windows will never defragment automatically. If you leave the computer on at night Windows 7 will defrag the drive, assuming you did not remove the defrag task from Windows Task Scheduler.
To error check a drive, right-click over the drive in Explorer. Choose "Properties" then click the "Tools" tab. You can also find the defragmentation tools there.
Gale
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:12 am
by kozikowski
You can also find the defragmentation tools there.
That is the manual defragmentation tools. If you the responsible human know that the computer will not be doing anything valuable for a time, you can cause the defragmentation process to happen right then. From my limited memory, it will do a multiple pass defrag process by itself and you can stop it at any time. Wait for at least second pass. It used to be you had to constantly restart it to get additional passes. The process repacks and organizes the work on the hard drive a little better each pass and makes it much easier for the computer to rapidly and efficiently find and store things.
I miss the graphic animation that earlier Windows machines had. You could watch Windows organize an explosion of tiny data packets into nice neat bundles and then line the bundles up like a video game. In this particular game, you always win.
Say you get done manually defragmenting, go to bed and leave the machine on. It will reach 4AM, check itself, and do another one automatically, unless you prevent it through settings, or shut the machine off.
Fragmentation or splitting apart files on the hard drive happens almost always while you're using the machine, but I wouldn't expect light duty like yours to be a serious problem -- unless the drive has never been cleaned.
We should hope this helps because I don't know of anything else that could be wrong.
Koz
Re: Large sections of my project dissapears after saving
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:09 am
by Theophilus20
OK,
Here are the pictures that i promised.
There were three tracks.
i tried to save them. Result: (Pic 1)
I tried to save them in with out numbers and dashes, No difference no matter what i tried.
I deleted all files left in that folder each time i tried to save it and it failed (It leaves folders even if it fails)
So, i tried to save to a folder with no numbers or dashes in it. Result: (Pic 2)
So after about 10 min trying to save it everywhere and anywhere i could, I gave up and attempted to save it in the same original folder as a compressed file. (Pic 3)
After saving it, i opened it and as you can see, the first 20 min in the first track is missing. Flat line. No audio. The right length, just no audio. (Pic 4)
So i copied the Error Log. Ypu will see at the 7:33 mark it shows an error. That is mathmatically about where the 20 min mark is in the recording of track 1.
I will have to upload that file in the next post. i am limited to 4 attachments.