Best way to move some labels to another label track

[Gale Andrews]

Actually the behaviour has been the same since at least 1.3.14, but it looks a bit weird since the option for "Retain Labels if selection snaps to a selection edge" was introduced.

Turning off the option:
"Edit > Preferences > Interface > "Retain Labels if selection snaps to a selection edge"
makes the behaviour the same as in 1.3.14 and it is easier to see what the limitation is.

As with audio, pasting over a selection will replace the current selection.
Unlike audio tracks, pasting at a specific point (not a selection), the labels will be merged with any existing labels.

The slight weirdness that occurs when clicking on a track to select it, is because by default the final label is not included in the selection, so it is not replaced.

I don't think this is a bug. I think it is an undocumented feature that looks odd.

I agree with Steve's diagnosis; I would have expected pasting an entire selected label track into another selected label track to overwrite, and AFAIK we don't describe that as a way to move labels.

I am not sure why in Peter's steps, "Retain labels=on" would move label 9 to time 0. but I guess since the selection is being overwritten, there is nothing else to do with the label if you force keeping it.

My solution (in Peter's test case, drag exactly from labels 2 to 10, cut or copy, click in the other label track at the point corresponding to label 2 and paste) also works fine. Selecting the entire label track to copy or cut, then select the label track to paste into followed by HOME might be better for visually impaired users and easier than Labels Editor.

That still leaves the problem that if you paste at a point where there is an existing label, the existing label is removed. I still see that as a bug rather than a weirdness because it prevents a proper merge, though "Retain labels=on" actually prevents it occurring.


Gale

[pshute]

Thanks for the tip (someone) about pressing Home before pasting. That merges them nicely. My method is now:
- click in the tracks area of the label track I want to copy to select it all
- click somewhere in the label track I want to merge it into
- press Home
- press control+V

My "Retain Labels if selection snaps to a label edge" preference is unticked, presumably the default, and I didn't lose the end label, despite the selection appearing to end at the label. Perhaps that wouldn't be true if I'd manually selected everything up to that label.

So the surprise for me was the difference in behaviour between selecting a point to paste into and pasting "over" the whole track. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the manual (http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Label_Tracks) or wiki (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Labels_Tips). I'm not sure why I would be surprised by that. I wasn't surprised it overwrote when I selected the whole track, but I assumed it would insert and move the other labels along if I chose a single point, like it would for audio. Pity I didn't try it.

I'm slightly uncomfortable using this merge operation unless it's documented. Is it supposed to do it? I wonder if it's ever annoyed anyone who did want the other labels to move along.

I'd forgotten about the Edit Labels command. That method wouldn't have been practical for this operation because there are too many labels involved, and it forces you to do them one by one.

I see that you can select more than one label in that command, but it doesn't seem to let you do anything with the selection. If I could select all the labels in a track, then change their track in one operation then that would be a neat way to do it that also feels safe.

My next task is to move a few individual labels into their own track, and I see Edit Labels as the best way to do that. I think copying and pasting is going to be tedious for single labels. Luckily I will be able to identify the labels involved by their text, so this will be fairly quick.

It would be quicker if I could specify a filter string in Edit labels so I could only see those I want to move.

Does anyone think it would be generally useful to be able to do operations on multiple labels in Edit Labels? And to be able to filter them according to their content, and perhaps by their track?

My operations on labels recently makes me think this is a slightly neglected part of Audacity, and I'm wondering if this is for lack of demand more than anything else. Would that be true?

[steve]

I'm slightly uncomfortable using this merge operation unless it's documented. Is it supposed to do it?

Don't be uncomfortable
Yes it is supposed to do it, and yes it should be documented. It was just overlooked when label tracks were documented but your post here has drawn attention to that omission.

My operations on labels recently makes me think this is a slightly neglected part of Audacity, and I'm wondering if this is for lack of demand more than anything else. Would that be true?

"Edit Labels" is a relatively new feature. It's not a feature that I have used much myself, but I agree that it has scope for further development. As you seem to have a number of ideas for how it could be improved, it may be worth starting a new topic in the "Adding Features" part of the forum: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewforum.php?f=20

Requesting a feature does not automatically mean that it will be implemented soon, or ever, but feature requests are logged and many past feature requests have been implemented.

[Gale Andrews]

the surprise for me was the difference in behaviour between selecting a point to paste into and pasting "over" the whole track.[...] I wasn't surprised it overwrote when I selected the whole track, but I assumed it would insert and move the other labels along if I chose a single point, like it would for audio.

No, it wouldn't move the labels along (unless Sync-Lock Tracks was enabled) for the same reason that generating at a point in an audio track with the label track also selected doesn't move the following labels along. That is something still to be fixed.

My next task is to move a few individual labels into their own track, and I see Edit Labels as the best way to do that.

I still find selecting between the labels with the guidance of the yellow Snap To Guides the quickest way for that (if of course you are zoomed out so you can see all the labels).

Labels Editor is relatively unintuitive IMO though bear in mind it was largely designed for visually impaired users.


Gale

[pshute]

My next task is to move a few individual labels into their own track, and I see Edit Labels as the best way to do that.

I still find selecting between the labels with the guidance of the yellow Snap To Guides the quickest way for that (if of course you are zoomed out so you can see all the labels).

Not sure what you mean here. I'm now talking about moving single labels, one at a time.

[Gale Andrews]

My next task is to move a few individual labels into their own track, and I see Edit Labels as the best way to do that.

I still find selecting between the labels with the guidance of the yellow Snap To Guides the quickest way for that (if of course you are zoomed out so you can see all the labels).

Not sure what you mean here. I'm now talking about moving single labels, one at a time.

If the labels you want to move are adjacent in the same track, then you can consider my suggestion as above - it's fewer steps than moving the labels one at a time.

If you need to move one label at a time, Edit Labels is as good as anything.

You can also click on the left edge of the label, drag to the right edge (or a little to right if it's a point label),then Edit > Remove Audio > Cut or Edit > Remove Audio > Split Cut, then paste. Steve has pointed out that the "Remove Audio" name might not be the best.

Yet another way that is reasonably intuitive for a point label is to click in the label, drag select all its text, right-click, copy or cut, click in the other label track, then Edit > Paste Text to New Label. But you then have to remove the original label.



Gale

[pshute]

Labels Editor is relatively unintuitive IMO though bear in mind it was largely designed for visually impaired users.

I would have thought then that it could be used entirely with keystrokes.

I've worked out how to do that to change the track of a label: use cursor keys to get to the track cell of the label, press F2, use cursor keys to select new track. But how do I now finish selecting so I can move to the next label? The only way I've found it to press Enter, but then I'm at label 1 when I press the Down key. Is there a better way, other than just use the mouse?

[Gale Andrews]

I would regard it as unexpected that if you change the track number for the third label, for example, then hit ENTER, the selection jumps back to the first label. But you can arrow down to the next label you want to move?



Gale

[pshute]

I would regard it as unexpected that if you change the track number for the third label, for example, then hit ENTER, the selection jumps back to the first label. But you can arrow down to the next label you want to move?

After I press F2 to activate the combobox, the cursor keys only move up and down the dropdown values. The only way I've found to exit this value choosing mode is to press Enter. When I do that, we jump to label 1.

I assume this is an oversight. F2 then Enter works ok for the label text - it jumps to the next label as I'd hope.

Works ok for changing times too, so I'm guessing people don't use multiple label tracks that much and the track changing problem hasn't been noticed.

Interestingly, changes to the times make the labels move as soon as one moves to the next label, but text and track changes are only refreshed once Edit Labels is closed.