4 headsets and a mixer

[Str8sixfan]

So I started doing some podcasting last year on my own with the mic on my web cam. For the rudimentary equipment, I thought it did alright. But now I want to take it to the next level. Instead of using a mic and headphones from now on, I prefer to just have headsets as I want to have a mobile operation, i.e. college football tailgates. Eventually if my operation takes off, I'll then invest in a better "home studio" mic. Anyway I've been doing a lot of research but I can't quite find the clearest of answers. Here's what I think I need to make my operation possible, please correct me along the way where I might be wrong:

I want capability of recording up to 4 people. Likely it will always be me and a co-host, and a sporatic guest here or there. I've read somewhere you want 4 mics in case one input goes bad for whatever reason you can plug into the next slot. And from what I can tell there aren't any 3 input mixers out there anyway.

So from what I can tell I need:

My computer of course
A USB controller as the in-between the mixer and computer
A mixer with at least 4 XLR inputs
3 headsets that have XLR connections only

Am I right about the only option for headsets is with XLR connections? 3.5mm* connectors won't work?

* edit, I guess I meant 1/4" inputs as a possibly alternative to the XLR not 3.5mm. I got my sizes mixed up

[kozikowski]

Step through a show. Describe everything. Make it as uncontrolled as possible, say an interview outside the house somewhere. You're describing several contradicting ideas. Did you ever do field operations for your earlier show? You were on a laptop, you could do that.

Doing a complex show outside the studio is not for the weak or infirm.

Koz

[steve]

Most microphones that have 3.5mm "stereo" connectors will not work with a standard mixer. Not only do they have the wrong plug, but very often they require a 5 v supply voltage (which is usually available on computer microphone inputs, video camera mic inputs, and similar, but not available on mixers).

[kozikowski]

There's quite a list of problems doing this. That's why I want a description of the show. Ever notice that in TV news broadcasts, it's almost always one person interviewing one person, two at most? then they throw it back to The Studio which has the large mixing board and multiple hosts and any number of guests. Even award-winning, carefully produced radio shows like This American Life, it's always one to one.

I know a guaranteed way to scare off an interview. Tell them they have to wear headphones. The same headphones that homeless guy was wearing....

Koz

[Str8sixfan]

Step through a show. Describe everything. Make it as uncontrolled as possible, say an interview outside the house somewhere. You're describing several contradicting ideas. Did you ever do field operations for your earlier show? You were on a laptop, you could do that.

Doing a complex show outside the studio is not for the weak or infirm.

Koz

Ok, well I don't necessarily get the context of your response, seems a little brash, not sure if you meant it that way, just hard to understand through words...

Anyway, that's why I posted up my idea here. It's because I'm having trouble finding answers without being a member on a forum like this one. Hence this was the sole reason I joined the sight, to get answers. I don't understand where I posted up contradicting ideas. To over simplify my question in my original post, I simply asked do I have to have head sets with XLR in puts to record talking among 3 people, and a mixer with 4 XLR inputs? I was asking if I was right about that or if there are more options than that?

Here's how I picture an "outside the home" show. A buddy of mine owns a bar, that I might record live from a time or two. I will set my desktop up as it is at home. Yea it's a bit cumbersome, but my tower's tiny, and hey I'm the one doing it so it won't bug me as long as I allow enough time. It will be me and a friend with simple back and forth banter. Then occasionally we may want to bring on a 3rd person. I want a mixer I can plug 3 headsets into and record talking. That is all.

Of course this won't be something I expect I can just jump in and do. I will likely mostly be doing home recordings with me and my buddy until I get a hang of what capabilities my mixer has.

As far as uncontrollably goes, obviously in a bar I'll be against ambient noise which will take some experience in how to combat that. Also I might want to pump sound out as well over loud speakers so the crowd can hear as we record. Someone might not show up for an interview, so again it will go back to just two people talking. I'm sure some ebs and flows will be hard to get right, but I'll hope to be able to edit out some things later after the recording's done.

[steve]

I think what Koz means is that within your (apparently simple) enquiry there are a host of possible complications.

To over simplify my question in my original post, I simply asked do I have to have head sets with XLR in puts to record talking among 3 people, and a mixer with 4 XLR inputs?

Did my first reply answer that adequately?

or if there are more options than that?

Yes there are many other options, for two examples:

Record each part of the conversation separately and add the bar ambiance after (as an extra track). This method is very common in radio productions.
You could use a single "lip mic" and pass it from interviewer to interviewee.

You could use two hand held mics and a 2 channel USB microphone pre-amp. One mic recording to the left channel and one to the right of a stereo pair. Split the stereo pair to two mono channels to get the voices on independent tracks. Pass one of the mics if you nee to include a third person.

As far as uncontrollably goes, obviously in a bar I'll be against ambient noise

Not just noise, but very difficult acoustics. Headsets or other "close" mics will help to some degree, but you are still up against it for getting good recording quality.

Also I might want to pump sound out as well over loud speakers so the crowd can hear as we record.

Which could open up another can of worms. You will need to avoid picking up the "broadcast" sound otherwise you will get terrible echoes in the recording, or howling feedback.

You can't "filter out" background sound or echoes from a recording. Once they are in the recording they are permanent. This is the main reason that most "on location" recordings are "faked" (recorded in an acoustically controlled environment and ambient sounds added later).

[steve]

* edit, I guess I meant 1/4" inputs as a possibly alternative to the XLR not 3.5mm. I got my sizes mixed up

Most mixers have only XLR for microphone inputs. If they also have 1/4" jack, those are usually for instrument inputs that have a much higher signal level.

[Str8sixfan]

Steve, your answers sure did help. And the fuzziness is starting to clear up a little.

So it really sounds like I'm better off with two pairs of headphones, and mics instead of headsets, am I right?

I can see the scenario of passing the mic to the "third" man as a viable option. Likely it will be a host + co-host operation where one person will primarily be asking the questions of the guest, while the co-host does behind the scenes work to get going on the next segment. He/she might have a question he/she wants to ask the guest, but I'd completely be fine with passing the mic to my co-host in that scenario so the guest doesn't have to necessarily share equipment to hopefully make it more comfortable for them. But can I have a mixer then that allows for 3 headphones and 2 mics. That way the co-host can always be listening to what's going on while he's on the computer or whatever gathering info, and then can motion to me if he wants to say something?

I was certain the operation wasn't as simple as I initially thought, hence another reason to join and jump on here.

I was thinking the headset would have been more ideal in order that the proximity to the microphone wouldn't change throughout the interview and could have a constant proximity to the vocal source in areas of poor conditions. I obviously have a lot more to think through. I mean this is meant to be an amateur set up, but I also want to try to buy appropriate equipment to do what I want to do somewhat successfully. I want to be able to grow the operation if the feedback/demand is there so I want to make solid purchases.

[kozikowski]

A buddy of mine owns a bar, that I might record live from a time or two. I will set my desktop up as it is at home. Yea it's a bit cumbersome, but my tower's tiny, and hey I'm the one doing it so it won't bug me as long as I allow enough time. It will be me and a friend with simple back and forth banter. Then occasionally we may want to bring on a 3rd person. I want a mixer I can plug 3 headsets into and record talking. That is all.

That's exactly what I was after.

You're doing this with your desktop machine? The reason that's important is not that it wouldn't work, but you're immediately tied down to one location and that location needs to be next to wall power.

Unless you're on a stage or other performance area, putting your voice in the ceiling speakers doesn't work. That's a nightmare of bell sounding words and hooting feedback. That's the day I call in sick.

Headsets are hard. There was a poster a while back that wanted multiple headsets in a performance. I think he eventually got it all to work. He designed and built the equipment -- without soldering as I recall. The problem is that computer headsets as described above have to get their power from somewhere. If this happens to you enough, you break down and build the adapter. It's a very simple circuit, but if you've never built anything, it's rocket science -- and you need as many as you have headsets.

I'm going to see if I can find that posting.

Koz

[kozikowski]

Unexpected success. This is the battery adapter box you need to plug a "computer" headset into your mixer.

http://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/ ... attery.jpg

I don't know of anybody that makes one, so you have to do it.

This is the thread from someone who wanted to do something very similar to what you're doing. It's a very serious thread.

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 27&t=64269

The headphone system can be simply an octopus headphone adapter.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2102960

Four people is harder. Do you have a mixer picked out yet? I recommend the Peavey PV6 only because they've worked well for us and they're not a million dollars.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PV6/
or
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PV6USB/
You need to know that they're not battery powered and you'll need that later for actual tail-gaters.

Many people who do this use portable recorders, not put-together systems. Zoom, Marantz, etc.

Koz