Lost important recording

[KenH]

Help, I was making a radio contact between the ISS (International Space Station) and the local high school this morning. I was using Audacity 1.3.13 to record from the mixer to my laptop. I set up the Timer Record for the 10 minutes of the pass so I wouldn't forget to press record. I was kind of busy moving the antenna to track the ISS and working the radio. The recording started fine but near the end of the recording I realized there would be a few people speaking to the audiance over the PA system after my timed recording ended. I needed to extend the record time so I cancelled the timer record function and pressed record again. To my shock and horror the first recording was gone! Does Audacity write to a temp file on the computer so I can retreive the first recording or am I hosed? I saved the "project" hoping that would contain both recording but it only has the second one. I searched my computer for any files created at the time of the first recording but found nothing.
Help...

[kozikowski]

Timer recording is not one of our more fuzzy-warm features. I have personal scars from unfortunate assumptions that the programmers made.

I cancelled the timer record function and pressed record again.

But you didn't press Stop. That may have killed you right there. You left the first recording job in an unstable state.

I would have expected you to get a second, new track underneath the existing one, but only if you exited the first session gracefully. Audacity is also famous for writing over old cache files if it gets confused. We'll see what the other elves have to say.

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

.

When a Timer Record is actually recording, there is a difference between the "Stop" and "Cancel" buttons in the Timer Record progress dialogue. "Stop" stops the recording and preserves it (like the yellow Stop button in a manually started recording). "Cancel" undoes the recording (removes the recorded track). If you cancel, the recording (I would have expected) would still be stored in the Undo History until you close that project window.

So if you still had the project open from where you had cancelled the first recording and completed the second, you would have done:

1 Edit > Copy (or safer, File > Export as WAV) the second recording.
2 Edit > Undo Record (removes the second recording)
3 Edit > Undo Track Remove (restores the first recording)
4 Press K to move to the end of the first recording, then Edit > Paste to paste the second recording at the end of the first (or File > Import > Audio the second recording if you exported it).

However at the moment in 2.0.0, it seems that while "Cancel" in Timer Record recording lets you Edit > Redo Record to restore that recording, if you then start another Timer Record there is indeed no way to get back to the first cancelled recording (at least via Edit > Undo).

For now, leave the project window open. If you close it without the first recording visible, it will be gone for good. I'll experiment some more.



Gale

[Gale Andrews]

For now, leave the project window open. If you close it without the first recording visible, it will be gone for good. I'll experiment some more.

No, the first recording will be overwritten by the second I'm afraid in the scenario you quote, because cancelling the Timer Record is like doing Record, Stop, Edit > Undo Record then another Record. The second recording is then at the start of the Undo History, which is stepwise. This means it does not give you unlimited undo for absolutely every step taken, just every step in a sequence.

Had you cancelled Timer Record, Edit > Redo Record then started to record again (or just stopped Timer Record), all would have been well. Sorry.

Timer Record possibly should give you some way to extend a recording in progress, but the real problem is treating "cancelling a Timer Recording" rather literally that you really want to do that.



Gale

[waxcylinder]

Timer Record possibly should give you some way to extend a recording in progress ...

There is an extensive proposal in the Wiki for improvements to the Timer Record facility which includes the ability to change the timers while recording is in progress: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Propo ... provements

... but the real problem is treating "cancelling a Timer Recording" rather literally that you really want to do that.

This thread shows that the Cancel button in the Timer Record can be dangerous and non-intuitive for users.
@Gale: Should I consider adding removal of the Cancel button to the proposal?

WC

[Gale Andrews]

... but the real problem is treating "cancelling a Timer Recording" rather literally that you really want to do that.

This thread shows that the Cancel button in the Timer Record can be dangerous and non-intuitive for users.
@Gale: Should I consider adding removal of the Cancel button to the proposal?

I think so, but let's wait a couple of days. If no-one else has commented on -devel I'll put it up on Bugzilla and you can link to it in your proposal if you want. I think it's too dangerous. If you cancel accidentally or otherwise, the obvious reaction is to press Record to continue what you were recording, and then you lost your recording.




Gale

[PGA]

Perhaps there is an alternative approach?
I don't use "Timer Recording" but from following this, and other, topics on the forum, I get the impression it is intended to be used for "unattended recording". That being the case, and assuming the recording has been set up correctly, doesn't that imply that the user definitely wants that recording? Therefore an alternative approach would be to force a "Save Project As" if the user attempts to amend the Timer Recording parameters/status whilst the recording is actually in progress. At least that would preserve the material captured up to that point.
Just another of my "off the wall" observations...

[Gale Andrews]

Perhaps there is an alternative approach?
I don't use "Timer Recording" but from following this, and other, topics on the forum, I get the impression it is intended to be used for "unattended recording". That being the case, and assuming the recording has been set up correctly, doesn't that imply that the user definitely wants that recording? Therefore an alternative approach would be to force a "Save Project As" if the user attempts to amend the Timer Recording parameters/status whilst the recording is actually in progress. At least that would preserve the material captured up to that point.
Just another of my "off the wall" observations...

Because you can't get back to the Timer Record controls once the recording is in progress, the only choices are "Stop" or "Cancel" and the only problem is "Cancel".

A forced "Save Project" on its own wouldn't help this case at all - also if Audacity crashed the recording would be recovered. The issue is how the Cancel is being handled in the Undo Stack.

Since (as you say) this is an "unattended recording" feature, it may be rare that people use or misuse "Stop" or "Cancel and that the "least coding" solution is to remove the Cancel button.



Gale

[waxcylinder]

Since (as you say) this is an "unattended recording" feature, it may be rare that people use or misuse "Stop" or "Cancel and that the "least coding" solution is to remove the Cancel button.

Actually some of us use it while we are fully at the computer doing other stuff, and the Timer Record is set up so that we don't miss the start of a broadcast show we want to capture while we are busy doing other things.

Peter.

[KenH]

Audacity is also famous for writing over old cache files if it gets confused.
Koz

I ran a few deleted file recovery programs looking for recently deleted files and came up empty. I assumed the temp files have a ".au" extension. If anyone knows differently please let me know. I'm guessing that Audacity overwrote the older temp/cache files when I pressed cancel and started a new recording.....