Could you please help me reverse the volume?

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Winston
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Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Winston » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:55 am

I don't mean flipping the waveform vertically (like "Invert"), I mean literally making the loudest sound quietest, and no sound maximum volume. I wrote "1 / (*track*)" in the Nyquist Prompt, but it did nothing. I tried changing it a little, but still didn't work. Could you point out how to reverse the volume, if possible, while preserving vocals and/or keeping it HQ?

In other programs, I've tried flipping each half of the wave by making sawtooth-shaped wave in bipolar or inverted in unipolar, using a compress effect with high and low inverted, inverting an audio spectrum loudness, inverting Gain and preserve Frequency, and all that, but if that isn't possible, is it at least possible to make a code with the methods I tried, in a combo box with names for the methods?

kozikowski
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by kozikowski » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:34 am

no sound maximum volume.
The "No Sound" part will depend on the bit depth. So it's open ended. Also, similar to existing compressors and expanders, you have to choose the rate of the applied correction. It's not one thing.

I can't imagine what that would sound like. Why are we doing this?

Koz

steve
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by steve » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:43 am

Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:55 am
I mean literally making the loudest sound quietest, and no sound maximum volume.
This plug-in does something like that: viewtopic.php?p=335940#p335940
though I've no idea how silence can become "maximum volume". What does that even mean? You want to replace silence with some kind of noise or some other sound? :?

Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:55 am
while preserving vocals and/or keeping it HQ?
If the vocals are mixed in with other sounds, it's probably not possible to separate them out (in high quality) without very expensive, purpose made software, (such as "Melodyne studio" ~ $700) and a lot of time tweaking it.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

Trebor
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Trebor » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:05 am

The (free) "KONTRAST" plugin can boost quiet sounds and attenuate loud sounds at the same time ...

before-after KONTRAST.png
before-after KONTRAST.png (442.92 KiB) Viewed 444 times
OK for electronic music, but not much else because of the digital-artefacts generated.
(Possibly useful to make faint background clicks & hum conspicuous, so they can be removed).

Winston
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Winston » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:11 pm

Trebor, I ran into a problem. I can't set the max below min, or min above max. Both KONTRAST and LEVELS do this. I can't change it, because it is a .DLL file and not a .NY file. How to set low and high backward in KONTRAST and LEVELS?

Trebor
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Trebor » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:37 pm

Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:11 pm
... How to set low and high backward in KONTRAST ...
Negative_Spectrogram.png
the extreme "KONTRAST" settings I used
Negative_Spectrogram.png (12.8 KiB) Viewed 425 times
Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:55 am
I've tried ... inverting an audio spectrum loudness ...
"invert spectrogram" is the brief you've specified.

Winston
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Winston » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:29 pm

Trebor, It's neat, but when I applied the effect twice, it didn't revert to normal... just have to ask; Why did that happen if double negative is positive? Is it very lossy? Is there a way around this? Did you use a different scale of dB or Hz of some sort? Did you invert differently than I did?

When I inverted the spectrum in a different program, where there was no sound was white noise, and frequencies were replaced in noisy any-other frequency.

The picture shows what I mean by "inverted spectrum", putting it in negative.
Attachments
negspec.jpg
negspec.jpg (317.51 KiB) Viewed 402 times

Trebor
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Trebor » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:36 am

Winston wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:29 pm
... when I applied the effect twice, it didn't revert to normal... just have to ask; Why did that happen if double negative is positive?
The KONTRAST plugin is only capable of an approximation of inverting spectrogram.
(In a true negative the darkest parts would become the brightest, and vice versa).
but it's close enough to let you hear what an inverted (negative) spectrogram sounds like.
Winston wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:29 pm
Is it very lossy? ...
Inevitably inverting a spectrogram will be a lossy process: the signal-to-noise ratio is going to get worse with repeated applications, (and you will accumulate digital artefacts).
Winston wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:29 pm
... Did you use a different scale of dB or Hz of some sort? ...
I use the logarithmic (rather than linear) spectrogram ...
https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/spe ... tings.html

If you're looking for a filter which brings out faint voices which don't actually exist you're on a futile quest.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voice_phenomenon

Winston
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by Winston » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm

Would something like this work? Left is low-frequency, right is high-frequency, top is loud, bottom is soft. With a Nyquist plug-in, If I vertically flipped this around like so, Would it still be lossy? And Could I write it in Nyquist somehow?
Attachments
INVVOL.jpg
INVVOL.jpg (203.13 KiB) Viewed 387 times

steve
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Re: Could you please help me reverse the volume?

Post by steve » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Winston wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Would something like this work?
That depends what you mean by "work".
Winston wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Left is low-frequency, right is high-frequency, top is loud, bottom is soft. With a Nyquist plug-in, If I vertically flipped this around like so...
Run this code in the Nyquist Prompt:

Code: Select all

;version 4
(mult  10 (hp *track* 20000))
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)

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