Adjustable Fade

[waxcylinder]

Like Yulac I like the look of it with the sliders - it makes it look like the powerful tool it is.

Steve wrote earlier about the difficulties for "rank beginners" - what we have to remember is that this is not a beginner's tool (or even a tool for the low-skilled to average-skilled user). Rather this is a power tool for power users - you need to put the work in (or have done it previously) to understand just what this tool can do for you in allits rich complexities (hence the need for good and thorough documentation).

For beginners to mid-skilled the simple non-parameterized fades should be quite sufficient - especially if and when we get around to shipping Pro-Fade

Peter

P.S. I will need to spend some time looking at the GUI variants before I can comment on a preference.

[steve]

It could be made usable for "rank beginners" if we have presets that override all other controls, and those presets are selected to be understandable to said beginners.
That would allow us a lot more freedom for designing the more "advanced" features.

This image is only to demonstrate how such presets would look.
I'm happy to leave the choice of presets to others - this is just an example list of some that may be useful and easily understandable.

presets.png (43.07 KiB) Viewed 1279 times

[steve]

I do like gain as dB because it ties in nicely with other Audacity effects (such as Amplify and Normalize) and it is one of the standard notations, but...

The big problem with dB values on sliders is that the sliders in Nyquist plug-ins are linear scale. This means that all of the useful range is squashed up at one end with one useful setting (almost silence) at the extreme other end. This is a major impediment to the usefulness of dB on sliders (you usually end up using text input instead of the sliders, which defeats the point of using a slider).

The other problem is that dB on a linear scale slider never goes to absolute silence which usually requires a "fudge" at the end of the scale.

[waxcylinder]

I think I'm liking 26c

BUT I don't like entering two separate numbers in a single input box (far too wacky for my UI taste) as in the "Low and High" values

And I think I'm with Steve in not wanting per-cent.

Newbies are exposed to dB scale from the off as that is the default (and sensible IMO) setting for the meters.
We also have a linear scale (not percentage) on the waveform scale.

Am I wrong or are we getting close to a result, a releasable version?

Peter.

[steve]

26A

So, here is one possibility, distinguishing "% of original" from both "gains" (I'm not sure about adding "(1=original)" after "linear", as it may confuse with "% of original":

The word "gain" on its own means "as a ratio to the input".
If there are no additional qualifiers, "Gain = 1" means "unity gain" and "Gain = 0" means silence.

You can add a qualifier to the term gain, such as "dB"
"dB gain = 0 dB" means unity gain.
"dB gain = -inf dB" means silence.

I guess you could have "percentage gain", though I don't recall ever seeing that.
"percentage of original" is probably easier to understand than "percentage gain".

So you could have:

Code: Select all

;control a "Start and End points as" choice "Gain,dB gain,% of original" 0

[steve]

26B

BUT I don't like entering two separate numbers in a single input box (far too wacky for my UI taste) as in the "Low and High" values

I think it's OK as an "advanced" option. Having used this option it is definitely quick an convenient (though I agree it's a bit "wacky" as a standard control).

[steve]

26C

In 25f:

• the difference between the gain and % choices is clearer
• those who want sliders won't be offended
• you can "store" an alternative set of values if you don't mind changing the units

...

The objections to 26c may be that:

• we have lost the "linear units" (so it may force dB default which will be worse for beginners)
• we have the Nyquist interface issue that text in the box disables the sliders (but I think Nyquist users largely accept that)?

The three +'s from 25f can be accommodated in this design.
We do not need to lose "linear units".
The slider range is 0 to 1, which is the majority of user cases, and intuitively suggests 1 = 100% / unity gain and 0 = 0% / silence.
The interface clearly states that ALL other controls are disabled when a preset is selected, so there is little room for confusion there.
The "Gain Input Method" provides options for:

• Sliders
• Text (gain)
• Text (dB gain)

There could be an option for "Text (% of original)" but I don't think that it is necessary (or desirable) as these are intended as "advanced" controls - there are presets for novice users.

[yulac]

I like #26c a lot (but not Steve's adaption of it so much). The adaption is too complex again,,,

I think if you have different typs of gain you should explain them more like Mr Gale... on the panel slidders, GAIN is dB if I unerstand... so GAIN, dB GAIN, % of original in your code sliver is confusing... is it the GAIN and dB GAIN the same...

[Gale Andrews]

what we have to remember is that this is not a beginner's tool (or even a tool for the low-skilled to average-skilled user).

I am not sure I agree. The major gap we have is there is nothing between the non-GUI fades and Envelope Tool. I am comfortable with making this low to average skilled, but let's remember that most users are not mathematicians.

The big problem with dB values on sliders is that the sliders in Nyquist plug-ins are linear scale.
(you usually end up using text input instead of the sliders)

Can this be mitigated to some extent by skewing the scale so it contains the entire useful range (goes above 0)?

And you can still drag the sliders, or click to get near, then drag?

And I think I'm with Steve in not wanting per-cent.

But you've already said you are not a user of this effect. I'm trying to help people who want to use it but who will struggle with linear gain and confuse it with the linear vertical scale and therefore see it as a target.

Code: Select all

;control a "Start and End points as" choice "Gain,dB gain,% of original" 0 

If we want a linear gain in the choices then I think it should be called that, probably "Gain (Linear)".

Also I am not sure in the 26, 26a, 26b versions that it is clear enough that you can enter positive dB gains (hence my idea of adding "+ or -" in the choice text).


Gale

[Gale Andrews]

I don't like entering two separate numbers in a single input box (far too wacky for my UI taste)

The TimeText controls (for example, in Selection Toolbar) are not that dissimilar an idea.

Obviously if there was a decent GUI with Nyquist the different values could be more physically separated in some way.


Gale