IMO, essential not to hide them so that they have to be specially installed.
I would regard most of the shipped plugins as core effects (meaning don't make the user reinstall them), except the Spectral ones (but that is a "flagship feature").
I'd think most of the built-in ones are core. If I had to hide built-in effects I would only hide Paulstretch and Classic Filters (AutoDuck is mentioned in http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/tu ... music.html
and we have increasing numbers of podcasters).
So on that defintion of "core", the Effect menu would have to scroll and we may as well list all shipped effects as hide a few.
steve wrote:I was however hoping that we could extend the question, not in scope, but in time-frame.
OK, but personally I would like to have that larger discussion early in 2.1.2-alpha rather than now.
But Robert's vocal remover/isolator versus the current vocal remover and your limiter versus Hard Limiter seem to be good discussions to have now.
steve wrote:For 2.1.1, I agree that it is perfectly feasible to install ALL shipped plugins by default. Given the current state of documentation, and of the plug-in registering mechanism, I am inclined to agree. The decision of which to be installed by default in 2.1.1 needs to be finalised soon, so best that we can speak with one voice and give the QA view on that clearly.
OK, thanks for that. I can lobby James on that.
steve wrote:Moving beyond the current time-frame, I think that Robert made a good point that we could feasibly include all known Nyquist plug-in in the standard shipped version. Doing so would probably add less than 0.5 MB to the download. Personally I don't think that we should blindly add all and everything, though it would certainly be feasible to do so.
There are pros and cons. A big con for now is that we don't have a good enough system to manage many dozens of enabled items in Effect Menu. And even when we had that system, not every user would want more than a handful of the extra Nyquist plugins.
I think the main problem is there is no button in Audacity to link to http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Downl ... t_Plug-ins
. A user thinking of plugins would probably automatically think of VST's on Windows/Mac or LADSPA/LV2 on Linux, and not consider Nyquist at all unless they read the Manual.
Probably we should automate pulling all the plugins listed on http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Downl ... t_Plug-ins
into a single ZIP file. We'd have to do that anyway if we were to ship all of them with Audacity, though I'm not convinced we should ship all of them.
Gale Andrews wrote:There could arguably be some that should be replaced (like the Hard Limiter being replaced with your Limiter, and Leveller being replaced with a simpler compressor/expander and a distortion effect).
Regarding "Hard Limiter" and the Nyquist Limiter - any reason why we can't do that now in time for 2.1.1?
None, in my view - see above. I'll back having your "non-wave-shaping" limiter to replace Hard Limiter even though I use Hard Limiter occasionally (to remove loud vinyl raspberry noises).
Gale Andrews wrote:Click on the Effect Menu. Do you see More...?
With the current default settings, yes I see "More" at the bottom of the list.
If I install of the shipped plug-ins, then yes I can still see "More.." at the bottom. Nyquist plug-ins have always required scrolling down the list, and if I scroll down the list looking for a Nyquist plug-in then I can't help but notice that it says "More..." at the bottom.
OK but on Windows and Mac the plugins are not grouped into batches of 15, which thereby enables you to see More... .
Here is what I see after deleting all the .cfg files, launching 2.1.0, installing "SC4" and "Hard Limiter" but no VST or other types of plugin, then launching 2.1.1:
I can't see "More... ". Moreover - I think this has changed recently - I've lost AutoDuck, Leveller, Paulstretch and Sliding Time Scale without any obvious explanation why unless I actually think to try scrolling the menu.
Before, only users of 2.0.6 or earlier would have lost those shipped plugins, unless I was not testing correctly.
I really don't find this acceptable. Even if one were to agree that users should have to reinstall shipped effects on upgrade, surely you've got to be able to see "More..." or whatever we call it without taking any extra action to see it.