Suggestions on setting up a compressor &/or brick wall for

[steve]

There is such a thing as a "brick wall limiter" (that does not clip the audio). They should really only be used to limit momentary peaks, but not surprisingly they are frequently abused. The idea of a "brick wall" limiter is that the threshold defines a level beyond which the audio will not go (at all, ever). To achieve this behaviour without badly distorting the waveform, the limiter must be able to see into the future and start reducing the gain before a peak higher than the threshold occurs. Of course this is not possible in real-time hardware (can't be done "live") because of the small problem of seeing into the future, but that is not a problem for post-production software effects, because they can simply grab samples ahead of the current playback position to see what's coming.

There are also techniques that allow real-time hardware limiters to achieve a close approximation of this behaviour. One of which is to start limiting just below the threshold, and increase the compression ratio logarithmically so that the closer the signal gets to the threshold, the greater the compression ratio (this produces a "soft clipping" effect). The other is to digitally delay the signal a little, so that the limiter can see the not-delayed signal before applying the compression to the delayed signal. This second technique can be particularly effective when used in speaker management controllers (usually in big PA rigs) as it provides effective protection for high / mid frequency drivers, which will often need to be delayed a little anyway (so as to preserve phase coherence with slower moving bass drivers).

If I had my way the Behringer interface wouldn't pretend that it had a level control, but I'm guessing that may not have been an option for them -- windows may require a control

As far as I'm aware, the level control is provided by Windows. On Linux, the gain is not adjustable at the driver level (ALSA), but then there is (usually) a higher level driver layer ("Pulse") that provides software mixing, so the true (not scaled) input level is available by recording directly from ALSA, or a (software) volume controlled level via Pulse.

[JeffB]

Well, I finished up with recording the final Parish Mission talk on Thursday night & the school Dance Assembly this morning & early afternoon.

Our Pastor had recommended contacting the Music Director to see if she knew where the mixer/interface was for the other microphones, but she hasn't responded to my email yet. Hopefully she's not ticked that I already tried it without her permission. One of the choir members said that the gain controls for them were in that great big black metal box locked in the closet but I had been working on setting up the system for the Dance Assembly at the school & didn't have much time to get back & finish the job before they closed up there, so I went with Plan B for the talk.

They said that the add on board fed the main mixer board and they weren't using it, and let me take one of the unused mics attached to it & moved it under a speaker & extended the arm as far up as it would go. I disconnected the add-on board from the main one so that it wouldn't get into a feedback loop situation & hooked the UCA 202 up to the tape out RCA jacks. One of the choir members tapped the mic to see if it showed up on my Audacity display & it did, though I don't know if it was a normal response. Yeah, I know that's not good to do, but I had already extended the mic up all the way & that's what he did.

I needed to leave but hung around as long as I could, but needed to get back as some people were waiting on me & wanted to lock up the school. The recording of the choir came out at just about perfect levels but I was disappointed to find when I came back after finishing up at the school that once again the signal from the speaker's mic was very weak.

It wouldn't have surprised me if his signal was weaker than that of the choir, but I wouldn't have expected it to be that much weaker. Maybe it was, or maybe that wasn't actually a live mic or something. A couple of the choir members were arguing a bit over the color codes on the mics & wires. One thought they were accurate, the other said he didn't trust them at all. I haven't had a chance to see what Audacity could do with it yet, but I'm guessing it will turn out similar to the other one... better than a generic cell phone or tape recording, but not ideal either.

Maybe I'll find out more about what went wrong when the choir director gets back, and ideally what steps could be taken to improve the process in the future.

[JeffB]

The recording at the Dance Assembly had a few twists and turns.

I hooked up the computer to the tape out jacks using the Behringer UCA-202. I hit the play button on a CD and it looked to be in a good area on Audacity, but the volume was lower than it would be in the actual Dance Assembly. Unfortunately, when I moved the volume levels up towards where they would be Audacity was clipping like a big dog. I turned it back down and started fiddling with some of the dials on the mixer around the tape out monitor. None of them changed anything with regards to the levels being recorded in Audacity. I also could not see any tone generator.

For what it's worth, the lady in charge of the Dance Assembly said that the mixer was about 18 years old by her reckoning.

I figured it just wasn't going to work. I couldn't adjust the volume to suit my recording. They would want it much louder. As we got close to starting I decided to try an lower the slider on Audacity to a lower setting. BINGO! It worked! I think I ended up setting it to somewhere between .50 & .60. I could have gone a little higher, but I was trying to be safe.

Later on I noticed that the signal looked like it might be clipping when the dance assembly was talking into the mic even though the Audacity levels were probably around -6 or less. As I watched, sure enough the light meter thing, or whatever it's called was occasionally going all the way up until it hit the red clipping light at the top. Bummer. I moved the slider down for her mic a little bit & that fixed it. She was about touching it to her lips and talking pretty loud. I wish I had been alert enough to catch that sooner, but had I not been doing the recording & talking to you guys I probably never would have caught it. It didn't happen when her daughter sang the National Anthem through that mic, nor when one of the students used it & held it a few inches from her mouth during a short speech. I had to bump the slider a bit higher to keep the levels more consistent, and then back down again when she was finished.

Well at least I'm learning some as I go & will hopefully be able to do a better job of it next year.

But one interesting aspect of it to me was the way Audacity had reacted. If I understand how it all worked, it sounds to me like the UCA-202 was able to pass the signal through without clipping, but if the volume slider on Audacity was pegged all the way to the right it would overload the sound card on my computer? or Audacity? or the memory on my computer? But when the volume was turned down the entire chain could handle it without clipping... other than the one lady on the mic and that was apparently clipping at the mixer rather than further down the chain.

I think I saw 24-bit listed somewhere on the mixer, for whatever that's worth. My phone wouldn't take a picture of the mixer for me for some reason, but my son took a picture and was supposed to email it to me, but apparently sent it to the wrong address. I'm trying to get him to resend it. Hopefully I can post it tomorrow, of that would help in any way.

[flynwill]

I'll say it one more time: If you are using the UCA-202, lowering the little slider mic-volume in Audacity will have no effect on the clipping. The signal is still clipped, it's just that the clipped peaks are now at 0.5 (or wherever you put the slider) instead of 1, the resulting distortion is the same.

For a lot of people the distortion caused by a moderate amount of clipping is no big deal. Rock & Roll musicians routinely drive their amps in to clipping (But then they also prefer vacuum tube amplifiers than when driven into clipping don't produce near as harsh a set of harmonics as a solid state amp, or a digital system).

It would help a lot if we had a model number or picture of the boards your are working with. We might quickly recognize controls that you might have missed. It is quite possible that the board does not have any level control for the tape outputs separate from the mains. If that is the case you are pretty much SOL in being able to record with just the UCA-202 and get the levels right. If the amplifiers back in the closet have gain controls it is conceivable that you could lower the levels coming out of the board and make up for it by increasing the gain of the amps, but I wouldn't recommend that. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could put together a 10 dB attenuator of a handful of $0.05 resistors and some phono connectors (probably $10 worth). Otherwise your best bet in that situation will be to invest in a better USB audio interface that has physical gain controls. (Or your own small mixer to use as a front-end for the UCA-202).

Regarding the first night where the speaker was much quieter than the choir, it sounds like you were unable to stay around for the performance. If I understand the situation you were trying to get the entire show with a single microphone placed near one of the PA speakers. In which case there are several possibilities as to what went wrong. First of all the it is likely that the choir is indeed much louder to the audience than the orator. It is also possible that the orator's microphone doesn't even drive the speaker where you placed your microphone. And maybe the orator didn't really use the microphone, I've many who will step away from the podium and simply talk loud enough to be heard by all without the help of the PA. It's pretty rare that you can make a good recording on "auto-pilot", someone needs to be riding the gain controls, and you have to have separate control for the PA system and for the recording.

[JeffB]

Thanks for the reply, flynwill. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I'll say it one more time: If you are using the UCA-202, lowering the little slider mic-volume in Audacity will have no effect on the clipping. The signal is still clipped, it's just that the clipped peaks are now at 0.5 (or wherever you put the slider) instead of 1, the resulting distortion is the same.

That sounds reasonable, and yet when I was looking at the Audacity display when I had done a practice recording at lower levels than during the actual Dance Assembly, the display showed probably 90% or so of the waveforms going off the chart. Moving the volume sliders on the board down brought them back to more normal levels in Audacity, but it wouldn't have been nearly loud enough for the actual show. When I eventually tried moving the Audacity volume slider down, it did the same thing, and I could move the volume controls on the mixer board even higher than when I first tested it and from what I could tell it was not clipping in Audacity (anymore?).

Here's a screenshot of Audacity from the recording of the Dance Assembly:

http://i.imgur.com/10bXnIK.jpg

I realize that it is possible that there is some clipping in the recording,s the first time, with the Audacity mic slider at full volume, probably 90%+ was being clipped.
hlipping is no big deal. Rock & Roll musicians routinely drive their amps in to clipping (But then they also prefer vacuum tube amplifiers than when driven into clipping don't produce near as harsh a set of harmonics as a solid state amp, or a digital system).[/quote]

That sounds reasonable to me. But how bad would the clipping in that situation damage the speakers? Of course maybe some bands might consider those consumables and just a part of the cost of doing the shows.

It would help a lot if we had a model number or picture of the boards your are working with. We might quickly recognize controls that you might have missed. It is quite possible that the board does not have any level control for the tape outputs separate from the mains. If that is the case you are pretty much SOL in being able to record with just the UCA-202 and get the levels right.

It's not very high quality, but here's a pic of the mixer board used for the Dance Assembly that my son took:

http://i.imgur.com/L46f4NQ.jpg

It was before we started recording. We only used two channels, one cordless microphone on the far left, and one of the CD players. We dropped all of the other sliders to zero, other than the main volume control on the far right. The UCA-202 cables plugged into the RCA jacks for the "tape out" at the top of the mixer. I tried to mark all of those in red text & arrows.

If the amplifiers back in the closet have gain controls it is conceivable that you could lower the levels coming out of the board and make up for it by increasing the gain of the amps, but I wouldn't recommend that. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could put together a 10 dB attenuator of a handful of $0.05 resistors and some phono connectors (probably $10 worth)./quote]

Thanks for the info & idea. I do have a soldering iron, though I haven't used on in quite awhile. The bigger problem for me would be trying to figure out what needs to go where. I have a brother-in-law who's an electrical engineer. Maybe I could talk him into drawing something up for me if I decide to go that route. I probably have a year or so to decide before I'll need it next time. But you never know, they might have something else come up again before then.

Otherwise your best bet in that situation will be to invest in a better USB audio interface that has physical gain controls. (Or your own small mixer to use as a front-end for the UCA-202).

That too might be a possibility. I've been toying with the idea of trying my hand at narrating audio books and have an author that I know somewhat who said I could narrate one of the books he's already published as a trial run for both of us. If so, I'll need such an interface.

Here's a Focusrite Scarlett Solo http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-i ... rlett-solo that might do the trick.

Regarding the first night where the speaker was much quieter than the choir, it sounds like you were unable to stay around for the performance. If I understand the situation you were trying to get the entire show with a single microphone placed near one of the PA speakers.

Yes, you got it exactly right.

In which case there are several possibilities as to what went wrong. First of all the it is likely that the choir is indeed much louder to the audience than the orator.

I thought of that, and it's possible I suppose, but subjectively, they didn't sound that drastically different. At least they didn't the 1st two nights.

It is also possible that the orator's microphone doesn't even drive the speaker where you placed your microphone.

That's definitely another possibility. It looks like all of the other speakers that are attached to the ceiling, but that one is pointed at the choir, most directly at where the drummer would sit, when they have one. Maybe it's turned off all of the time so they don't get feedback, or don't have the other mics feed into it. That's something I can probably check out and get an answer to.

And maybe the orator didn't really use ... of the PA.
That's another possibility. He stepped away from the podium the 1st night & tried to use a cordless mic for a question and answer session while walking around in the audience, but it didn't work, so he just tried to talk louder. The 2nd night they had a new battery or whatever and it worked correctly for them. This 3rd & final night he was going to use a lavalier mic and walk around some, but I didn't get a chance to hear if it worked correctly or not.

It's pretty rare that you can make a good recording on "auto-pilot", someone needs to be riding the gain controls, and you have to have separate control for the PA system and for the recording.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly an ideal situation in a few respects, and with an amateur trying to record it to boot. I haven't had time to see if Audacity can salvage it yet, but I'm hopeful it will turn out as well as my first attempt on that 2nd night. It was nowhere near studio quality, but was still far better than nothing and probably better than a typical smart phone or even camcorder recording.

Thanks again for all of the help & ideas. I'm hoping this will help me to do a better job in the future.

[flynwill]

Thanks for the reply, flynwill. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I'll say it one more time: If you are using the UCA-202, lowering the little slider mic-volume in Audacity will have no effect on the clipping. The signal is still clipped, it's just that the clipped peaks are now at 0.5 (or wherever you put the slider) instead of 1, the resulting distortion is the same.

That sounds reasonable, and yet when I was looking at the Audacity display when I had done a practice recording at lower levels than during the actual Dance Assembly, the display showed probably 90% or so of the waveforms going off the chart. Moving the volume sliders on the board down brought them back to more normal levels in Audacity, but it wouldn't have been nearly loud enough for the actual show. When I eventually tried moving the Audacity volume slider down, it did the same thing, and I could move the volume controls on the mixer board even higher than when I first tested it and from what I could tell it was not clipping in Audacity (anymore?).

My Apologies for the dogmatic tone. It can be very difficult to detect clipping on a moving waveform display, it's not that easy even with a fast display like a real oscilloscope. Small amounts of clipping you may not notice audibly either. If you can zoom in to the point where you can see the actual waveforms, what you would look for are the peaks of the waveforms being flatted -- mountains turned into mesas if you will. Your screenshot does not look clipped.

That sounds reasonable to me. But how bad would the clipping in that situation damage the speakers? Of course maybe some bands might consider those consumables and just a part of the cost of doing the shows.

The way in which clipping usually damages speakers is that causes the waveform to have a lot more power at higher frequencies than the high-frequency speakers (the "tweeters") are designed to handle. Professional shows these days have separate amplifiers for each of the frequency bands, and so they can adjust the maximum power to the speakers to stay within limits even if the band tries to over-drive them. It's a lot easier to blow the tweeters on your home stereo by trying to get the music too loud with too small an amplifier.

It's not very high quality, but here's a pic of the mixer board used for the Dance Assembly that my son took:
http://i.imgur.com/L46f4NQ.jpg

That helps immensely. I pulled up the manual for that board of the Behringer web site and fairly quickly determined that indeed the Tape Outs are wired in parallel with the main outs. There is no independent level adjustment. The board does have a "Monitor Bus" and a "Aux Bus" -- basically totally separate mixes that can be sent to external equipment. So if those outputs are not currently in use you could connect there (and I can see that they are not connected in your picture). They are phone connectors so you'd need suitable adapters to the RCA connections on your UCA-202.

The Aux controls are directly above the "pan" pot in each of the input sections. Only one of the two AUX busses can be set to be "post-fader" so if you want to use them as a stereo pair you'll probably want to set everything "pre-fader" and then carefully adjust the level for each of the sources, while monitoring with headphones and the meter in Audactiy.

You said there were actually two mixer boards, were they both this model, or was the "master" board something different?

If the amplifiers back in the closet have gain controls it is conceivable that you could lower the levels coming out of the board and make up for it by increasing the gain of the amps, but I wouldn't recommend that. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could put together a 10 dB attenuator of a handful of $0.05 resistors and some phono connectors (probably $10 worth).

Thanks for the info & idea. I do have a soldering iron, though I haven't used on in quite awhile. The bigger problem for me would be trying to figure out what needs to go where. I have a brother-in-law who's an electrical engineer. Maybe I could talk him into drawing something up for me if I decide to go that route. I probably have a year or so to decide before I'll need it next time. But you never know, they might have something else come up again before then.

Indeed brother-in-law should be able to help. I can tell you (from having recently open up and partially reverse engineered one) that the input impedance of the UCA-202 is ~12k. So a single 27k resister in series will get you a 10dB drop. I would recommend locating the resistor as close to the UCA-202 as possible to avoid issue with loss of the higher frequencies due to cable capacitance.

Otherwise your best bet in that situation will be to invest in a better USB audio interface that has physical gain controls. (Or your own small mixer to use as a front-end for the UCA-202).

That too might be a possibility. I've been toying with the idea of trying my hand at narrating audio books and have an author that I know somewhat who said I could narrate one of the books he's already published as a trial run for both of us. If so, I'll need such an interface.

Here's a Focusrite Scarlett Solo http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-i ... rlett-solo that might do the trick.

The problem I see with that unit is that one channel is dedicated to a Mic input and the other dedicated to either instrument or line level. Great for a guy with a guitar and a mic, not so great for doing anything else. I would suggest instead their 2i2 model http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-i ... arlett-2i2 instead where both channels have the same mic/instrument/line flexibility. I should stress that I have no experience with any of the Focusrite units and have no idea how good or bad they are.

You may want to also consider a small mixer like the Peavey PV-6 -- either the "USB" model, or the plain model in combination with you UCA-202. More flexibility, but a significantly bigger box to carry around and find power for.

That's definitely another possibility. It looks like all of the other speakers that are attached to the ceiling, but that one is pointed at the choir, most directly at where the drummer would sit, when they have one. Maybe it's turned off all of the time so they don't get feedback, or don't have the other mics feed into it. That's something I can probably check out and get an answer to.

The speakers pointed back a the choir and drummer are "monitor" speakers. They are so that they can hear what the others sound like, rather than the echo of their voices off the back of hall. In an ideal world they should be connected to their own amplifier driven from the "monitor" output of the mixer board.

Thanks again for all of the help & ideas. I'm hoping this will help me to do a better job in the future.

Indeed, you're welcome and best of luck!

-Will

[JeffB]

My Apologies for the dogmatic tone. It can be very difficult to detect clipping on a moving waveform display, it's not that easy even with a fast display like a real oscilloscope. Small amounts of clipping you may not notice audibly either. If you can zoom in to the point where you can see the actual waveforms, what you would look for are the peaks of the waveforms being flatted -- mountains turned into mesas if you will. Your screenshot does not look clipped.

No apologies needed. I appreciate all of your help. I'm just trying to figure out how all of this works. I'm learning by bits & pieces, I think.

Many years ago a friend hooked up an oscilloscope to my stereo and cranked it up to show me what clipping looked like. I could definitely see those "mesas" when it happened... at about 3/4 volume. The nice thing was that it let me know pretty accurately the limits of my amplifier. Fortunately, that was louder than I really cared to play it anyway.

That sounds reasonable to me. But how bad would the clipping in that situation damage the speakers? Of course maybe some bands might consider those consumables and just a part of the cost of doing the shows.

The way in which clipping usually damages speakers is that causes the waveform to have a lot more power at higher frequencies than the high-frequency speakers (the "tweeters") are designed to handle. Professional shows these days have separate amplifiers for each of the frequency bands, and so they can adjust the maximum power to the speakers to stay within limits even if the band tries to over-drive them. It's a lot easier to blow the tweeters on your home stereo by trying to get the music too loud with too small an amplifier.

Thanks. Another tidbit I was unaware of.

It's not very high quality, but here's a pic of the mixer board used for the Dance Assembly that my son took:
http://i.imgur.com/L46f4NQ.jpg

That helps immensely. I pulled up the manual for that board of the Behringer web site and fairly quickly determined that indeed the Tape Outs are wired in parallel with the main outs. There is no independent level adjustment.

Wow, nice detective work. That pic is pretty poor quality. I didn't even know it was a Behringer mixer. It is apparently wired differently than my stereo system, whose tape out monitor output is not affected by the volume control.

The board does have a "Monitor Bus" and a "Aux Bus" -- basically totally separate mixes that can be sent to external equipment. So if those outputs are not currently in use you could connect there (and I can see that they are not connected in your picture). They are phone connectors so you'd need suitable adapters to the RCA connections on your UCA-202.

This jack would work then?:

Metal 6.35mm (1/4 Inch) Mono Plug to RCA Jack Adaptor

The Aux controls are directly above the "pan" pot in each of the input sections.

I've added green arrows pointing to the spots that I'm guessing are the Aux/Mon output jacks on the original photo. Correct?

http://i.imgur.com/yBIVpsW.jpg

Only one of the two AUX busses can be set to be "post-fader" so if you want to use them as a stereo pair you'll probably want to set everything "pre-fader" and then carefully adjust the level for each of the sources, while monitoring with headphones and the meter in Audactiy.

How does one set them to either "pre-fader" or "post-fader"?

I'll probably have to rely on the Audacity meters for now. I don't have any decent headphones, though they're on my wish list as they're apparently important for editing audio books.

You said there were actually two mixer boards, were they both this model, or was the "master" board something different?

The two mixing board (or more) setup was in the Church. This was the school's mixer used in this case for their annual Dance Assembly for the grade schoolers.

If the amplifiers back in the closet have gain controls it is conceivable that you could lower the levels coming out of the board and make up for it by increasing the gain of the amps, but I wouldn't recommend that. If you are handy with a soldering iron, you could put together a 10 dB attenuator of a handful of $0.05 resistors and some phono connectors (probably $10 worth).

Thanks for the info & idea. I do have a soldering iron, though I haven't used on in quite awhile. The bigger problem for me would be trying to figure out what needs to go where. I have a brother-in-law who's an electrical engineer. Maybe I could talk him into drawing something up for me if I decide to go that route. I probably have a year or so to decide before I'll need it next time. But you never know, they might have something else come up again before then.

Indeed brother-in-law should be able to help. I can tell you (from having recently open up and partially reverse engineered one) that the input impedance of the UCA-202 is ~12k. So a single 27k resister in series will get you a 10dB drop. I would recommend locating the resistor as close to the UCA-202 as possible to avoid issue with loss of the higher frequencies due to cable capacitance

It sounds like you must be an engineer as well. I may give that a go, but think the 1/4" to RCA adapter idea might be a better option for me if it will work. Thanks for that idea as well. I'll have a little time to play around with it I guess. Maybe I'll even have a nicer little interface by next year.

Otherwise your best bet in that situation will be to invest in a better USB audio interface that has physical gain controls. (Or your own small mixer to use as a front-end for the UCA-202).

That too might be a possibility. I've been toying with the idea of trying my hand at narrating audio books and have an author that I know somewhat who said I could narrate one of the books he's already published as a trial run for both of us. If so, I'll need such an interface.

Here's a Focusrite Scarlett Solo http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-i ... rlett-solo that might do the trick.

The problem I see with that unit is that one channel is dedicated to a Mic input and the other dedicated to either instrument or line level. Great for a guy with a guitar and a mic, not so great for doing anything else. I would suggest instead their 2i2 model http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-i ... arlett-2i2 instead where both channels have the same mic/instrument/line flexibility. I should stress that I have no experience with any of the Focusrite units and have no idea how good or bad they are.

You may want to also consider a small mixer like the Peavey PV-6 -- either the "USB" model, or the plain model in combination with you UCA-202. More flexibility, but a significantly bigger box to carry around and find power for.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I'm trying figure out how to put together a tiny little home studio for narrating audio books on a budget and I hadn't seen the Peavey models yet. I'll have to check out the forum on here for audio book production, which I haven't done yet. I've seen articles on a few different sites which give sometimes conflicting recommendations on microphones, and those decisions also impact what sort of interface/mixer one might need. It looks like a bit more reading up on the subject is required.

and thanks again for all of the help, info & ideas, they are much appreciated.

Jeff

[flynwill]

Wow, nice detective work. That pic is pretty poor quality. I didn't even know it was a Behringer mixer. It is apparently wired differently than my stereo system, whose tape out monitor output is not affected by the volume control.

Not hard, all I did was google "Eurorack UB1832fs-pro". The first hit is the unit for sale at Sweetwater ($250) which oddly has a much better picture of the unit than the second hit which was the Behringer web page for the product. Here's the link to the user manual http://www.behringer.com/assets/UB2442F ... O_M_EN.pdf

This jack would work then?:
Metal 6.35mm (1/4 Inch) Mono Plug to RCA Jack Adaptor

Yep. If you think you are going to do this very much I would invest in 1/2 a dozen.

The Aux controls are directly above the "pan" pot in each of the input sections.

I've added green arrows pointing to the spots that I'm guessing are the Aux/Mon output jacks on the original photo. Correct?
http://i.imgur.com/yBIVpsW.jpg

Not quite. Those jacks are the Headphone output, and the connection for a foot pedal to control the effects processor in the unit. The jacks you want are in the same top row as the Tape input/output but a bit further to the left. They are labeled "Aux Sends".

How does one set them to either "pre-fader" or "post-fader"?

There is a button labeled "Pre" next Aux level controls for each input. If I read the manual correctly that button only effects the Aux 1 send, the Aux 2 is always "pre fader". I also just now noticed that there are what appear to be overall gain knobs for both of the Aux sends. The Aux 1 knob is above the Mon Out fader, and the Aux 2 know is up just left of the controls for the built-in effects processor. Also next to the Aux 1 Send knob there is a "Solo" button which I would guess connects that output to the "solo" bus (Yet another cross bus). You may need to spend some quality time with that manual...

I'll probably have to rely on the Audacity meters for now. I don't have any decent headphones, though they're on my wish list as they're apparently important for editing audio books.

I find them important for any sort of critical work. You don't really have to spend a lot of money there either. I have a set of Sony MDR-V300s that I use for most stuff ($60 at Amazon).

The two mixing board (or more) setup was in the Church. This was the school's mixer used in this case for their annual Dance Assembly for the grade schoolers.

Ah, sorry. I somehow missed that the two events were two different venues. If you do get back to the church I suggest the same thing, take picture of the boards, then google the name and try to find a copy of the user manual online.

It sounds like you must be an engineer as well.

Guilty as charged

Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I'm trying figure out how to put together a tiny little home studio for narrating audio books on a budget and I hadn't seen the Peavey models yet. I'll have to check out the forum on here for audio book production, which I haven't done yet. I've seen articles on a few different sites which give sometimes conflicting recommendations on microphones, and those decisions also impact what sort of interface/mixer one might need. It looks like a bit more reading up on the subject is required.

Yes you should go read. There are whole novels there of various folks adventures trying to do exactly that. The biggest challenge is to create a space that is quiet and free of echos. There is a long thread from one fellow working the closet of this apartment just off La Brea (an extremely busy street) here in Los Angeles.

[JeffB]

Here's the link to the user manual http://www.behringer.com/assets/UB2442F ... O_M_EN.pdf

Great! Thank you.

The jacks you want are in the same top row as the Tape input/output but a bit further to the left. They are labeled "Aux Sends".

I found them on that much better photo of the mixer board that you alluded to. I've been wanting to post a "how to" for folks using that sound system for awhile and that would be a perfect photo for that. Many are given the job of doing announcements at basketball or volleyball games or award ceremonies, trivia nights etc. and they have no idea of what to do with it. Even showing them how to turn it on correctly so they don't blow out the speakers would be a help.

How does one set them to either "pre-fader" or "post-fader"?

There is a button labeled "Pre" next Aux level controls for each input. If I read the manual correctly that button only effects the Aux 1 send, the Aux 2 is always "pre fader". I also just now noticed that there are what appear to be overall gain knobs for both of the Aux sends. The Aux 1 knob is above the Mon Out fader, and the Aux 2 knob is up just left of the controls for the built-in effects processor. Also next to the Aux 1 Send knob there is a "Solo" button which I would guess connects that output to the "solo" bus (Yet another cross bus). You may need to spend some quality time with that manual...

Thanks. If I understand it correctly then I would plug the UCA-202 into both of the Aux send jacks if I wanted to record in stereo and would level things out from channel to channel using the red gain knobs, pushing the 'pre' button for jack #1 in each column/channel. Then if I wanted to raise or lower the input into Audacity without affecting the sound levels playing into the speakers, I would use the main gain knobs for the Aux outputs, (labeled #1 & #1 in red on the pic of the mixer).

Are the things I've been calling "sliders" actually called "faders"? -- the sliders that control the volume of the individual channels, such as a mic or another input, such as a CD?

I'll probably have to rely on the Audacity meters for now. I don't have any decent headphones, though they're on my wish list as they're apparently important for editing

I find them important for any sort of critical work. You don't really have to spend a lot of money there either. I have a set of Sony MDR-V300s that I use for most stuff ($60 at Amazon).[/quote]

Thanks. That's a little less than the ones ACX had recommended on their "wish list page". I'll head over to the audio book forum here in a bit to find out more.

If you do get back to the church I suggest the same thing, take picture of the boards, then google the name and try to find a copy of the user manual online.

Will do. I'll see if I can find whoever set that all up as well, if possible, or at least someone who knows a bit about it. The music director got back to me and said she didn't know anything about the boards other than that some years ago she thought that they had installed some sort of recording equipment "in the back room" where the main board must be.

It sounds like you must be an engineer as well.

Guilty as charged

The internet is such a wonderful thing, as are the people who are willing to share their expertise (& software) in helping others. I don't think the kids who have grown up with the internet and computers have any idea what a great blessing it is.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I'm trying figure out how to put together a tiny little home studio for narrating audio books on a budget and I hadn't seen the Peavey models yet. I'll have to check out the forum on here for audio book production, which I haven't done yet. I've seen articles on a few different sites which give sometimes conflicting recommendations on microphones, and those decisions also impact what sort of interface/mixer one might need. It looks like a bit more reading up on the subject is required.

Yes you should go read. There are whole novels there of various folks adventures trying to do exactly that. The biggest challenge is to create a space that is quiet and free of echos. There is a long thread from one fellow working the closet of this apartment just off La Brea (an extremely busy street) here in Los Angeles.

Will do.

[kozikowski]

I got two things that will make a world of difference.

— Set up with two people.

"OK, this is the choir mic. Can you hear it? One, two, one, two. [walking over] This is the Pastor's mic. Does it sound OK? No? I'll stay here and test with you until you find it.

— Be there for the shoot.

My two sound jobs that went straight into the dirt were the two where I couldn't be there.

Koz