Bit and Sampling rates - Real or Imagined?

[pietercape]

Hi Koz

I have just read your last post. I listen using excellent earphones with sound sourced from an excellent soundcard (see my previous posts) and accept that the limitations of just listening and have seen many clips/test reports on the falacies of listening tests but I am doing this just for myself and I guess I am sceptical enough not to believe verything that is claimed and objective enough to judge as best I can because it is for my recordings that I am seeking the best. So read my last post with that in mind.

My CD collection is 16bit/44100hz, exact copies of the CD and I understand that you cannot improve on the sound as captured from a CD. That must also be true of digitising LP's, you cannot improve the original sound other than to clean up the clicks and pops.

But I am still questioning why the 24/96 recording sounds brighter than the 16/44.1 recording given that both started out as 16/96 recordings.

[kozikowski]

So for me the million $ question is whether the better colour in the 24/96 recording compared to the 16/44.1 recording is worth the extra cost of a soundcard and the significant increase in storage space required. Mmmmmm.

Yes it is. If you can hear the difference then it's worth the extra effort, particularly if later you want to generate any of the other formats, going down damages things a lot less than going up.

Koz

[pietercape]

Thanks for that response Koz, it makes sense. So I guess I will be shopping for an Edirol UA-1Ex again.

[waxcylinder]

You may have to go for the Cakewalk UA-1G which is the replacement device that the manufacturer (Roland) produces. There are still some of the older UA-1EXs out there for sale if you seek them out.

Edirol/Roland tech. support assured me that the UA-1G is almost exactly the same as the UA-1EX - they have made the gain controls more ergonomic and easier to use - plus they have added a 1/4" jack socket for guitar input.

I'd be interested in hearing your feedback om whichever one you end up getting, thanks.

WC

[pietercape]

Hi Waxcylinder
Thanks for the info. Yes the Edirol UA-1EX was apparently discontinued some time ago and I cannot find a new one to buy. The Edirol UA-1G has also been discontinued and is replaced by the UA 101 which does not seem to be what I want. I have found a new UA-1G but am waiting for the supplier to confirm that he actually has it in stock( checking the shelves!)

Nothing is available on eBay. I will post my progress if I get the 1G

Thanks for your interest.

[waxcylinder]

I don't know wher you'r based - but Dolphin Music in Liverpool seems to have them in stock; http://explore.dolphinmusic.co.uk/search?p=Q&w=ua-1g

I bought by phono preamp and my UA-1EX from them by phone/post - excellent service.

and in the US Amazon.com seems to have some: http://www.amazon.com/Cakewalk-UA-1G-US ... 813&sr=8-2

I can still find a few UA-1EXs in the UK when I Google for it, including one on the UK eBay.

The UA-101 is a much more expensive (and function rich piece of kit) probably a lot more than you need for the tak in hand.

WC

[pietercape]

Hi Waxcylinder
Many Thanks for your trouble. I am in a small town on the north Canadian prairies and I prefer shopping with suppliers who can deliver from Canada to eliminate the costs and delays of customs. A few electronics suppliers have depots here. I saw the Amazon USA site but Amazon CA does not have them. I have shipped from the UK before (the Cantatis Overture for example) but it takes a lot of work at both ends such as establishing the exact customs code and persuading the shipper to document it properly. All the red tape is quite effective in promoting "local" purchasing!

In your Apr 15 posting you say that you are using the 24 bit setting on the Edirol and exporting to Audacity direct at 32bit float. Is this possible in Audacity ver.1.3.12 ? I had understood from another post that it had to be done by exporting with the software that comes with the Edirol and then importing into Audacity from that file as it appears that Audacity cannot accomodate ASIO? Are you using ASIO and was it difficult to set up?

I am hoping to hear from the supplier on Monday about the availability of the 1G and then it will take 10/14 days to find it's way to me but in the meantime I would like to gather as much info as I can, again thanks for your responses.

[waxcylinder]

I spoke to Roland UK today and they confirm that the UA-1G is a recently discontinued product.

They said it is scheduled to be replaced in May 2011 by the UA-11 Duo-Capture - see: http://www.roland.co.uk/products/produc ... spx?p=1155

The price in the UK is set to be UK£79.00 - i.e the same price-point as the UA-1EX and the UA-1G.

Update: having now looked at the specs for this new device in more detail I am somewhat confused. This device appears to be targetted at musicician pairs (guitarist & singer) who want to record together simultaneously i.e it is effectively a small, cheap 2-channel mixer. It does not look well set up for those of us looking for a device to capture line-level audio from record decks, tape decks and FM tuners.

WC

[waxcylinder]

In your Apr 15 posting you say that you are using the 24 bit setting on the Edirol and exporting to Audacity direct at 32bit float. Is this possible in Audacity ver.1.3.12 ? I had understood from another post that it had to be done by exporting with the software that comes with the Edirol and then importing into Audacity from that file as it appears that Audacity cannot accomodate ASIO? Are you using ASIO and was it difficult to set up?

1) Well I think I'm using 24-bit setting on the Edirol - but you've set me off reading the Edirol manual (again). Now I am am unsure whether the device is running in 24-bit or 16-bit. The manual says the device can work in either 16 or 24-bit when it is set to its Advanced mode, but there is no dip-switch or other setting that I can see on the device or in the manual to toggle between 16 and 24-bit - so I can only assume that it is done in software somewhere. I have logged a tech. support call with Roland to explore this further.

2) Whichever bitrate mode it is in, yes I am feeding the signal from the Edirol to Audacity with Audacity set to 44.1kHz 32-bit float. This has worked fine in 1.3.12 (and earlier Betas), the latest 1.3.13 and also on the Alpha 1.3.14 nightly builds. I am assuming that Audacity is handling the up-sampling.
Even when it was used set to Standard mode, and thus definitely operating at 16-bit, it was feeding 1.2.x and 1.3.x Audacities all set to 32-bit float. No other export step has ever been necessary.

3) I am not using ASIO - for a couple of reasons:
a) you have to compile Audacity yourself to include ASIO support (this is down to licensing restrictions not technological ones) and
b) I want to run "standard" releases of Audacity for support and documentation purposes.
Lurking at the back of my mind is a suspicion that in order to get the Edirol to work at 24-bit I would need to build a release with ASIO - but since it produces sonically good results in its current state I wouldn't even bother thinking about that personally. I think though, whichever bit-rate it is using, that I am probably happier using Ediorol's specific driver written for the device rather the the generic Microsoft USB device driver.

4) And no it wasn't difficult to set up in its Advanced mode - the instructions that come when you download the Edirol driver are clear and easy to follow (IIIC I think those instructions are also in the manual).
And in its Standard mode it was a cinch to get up and running: a few simple settings of the dip-switches and then it really was just plug&play ...

Update response from Edirol/Roland tech. support says: "The bit depth is set in the software you are using, such as Sonar, rather than in the interface itself. You will need to have the Advanced Driver switch on in order to record and play back at 24 bit." Informative, but not very helpful !

WC

[pietercape]

Hi Waxcylinder,

My question about the 24bit recording using the UA-1EX comes as a result of this post by Steve on 1 Aug 2010 http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 7&start=30 when he says:

"It may be worth mentioning here that although Audacity does not currently support 24 bit recording on Windows, it does support 24 bit / 32 bit float for importing, editing, processing and exporting. For anyone that wants to take advantage of 24 bit recording, and use Audacity for editing, they could record with an application that supports ASIO (such as Sonar or Wavosaur), then export the recording as either 24 or 32 bit WAV, then import that file into Audacity."

Then there is an interesting post from R_G_B in the next post as well.

Your last update probably explains why Steve, in his post quoted above says that the file needs to be imported via Sonar to get a 24bit recording? Has Audacity been upgraded to support 24bit recording?