Audacity Forum

Try this. Amplify (not Normalize) to -7dB instead of the default value of zero. That will put you much closer to the old sound standard for Music CDs and it might be a much better match to your other music.

Koz

Hi Koz,

Thanks for both of your suggestions. I will burn Kathleen Battle and also try your other "Amplify" suggestion. If Battle sounds bad on that stereo, then I'll know that it's the culprit. I used "0" normalization, initially, due to an Audacity You Tube video that I had seen. I thought that it was the best setting for my audio...but..I'm a novice at this so I'll take your advice and try a new approach.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
MLK3329

You may just have encountered a situation where the default values in the tools aren't appropriate. Or your car is broken.

At the dawn of recorded history, the volume levels of the digital services were chosen to avoid damage at all costs. Everybody had scars from the very narrow range of loudnesses that were possible in analog. For example, standard digital broadcast audio can double in volume three times before overload damage occurs -- both US and Europe. Lots of room for explosions and gunshots. Audio on a Music CD was chosen around those values and I still have Music CDs recorded very early that conformed to those standards.

Then the inevitable loudness wars kicked in and we played "my show is louder than yours." I have one commercially recorded Electronica Dance CD that lives just every so slightly below overload. The whole disk. In Audacity, the blue waves look like a solid block.

You can only get away with that in post production. There's no way to record a live performance and automatically have it punched and loud like a commercially produced disk. We get regular posters who want to do that. "How come my performance isn't as loud as the one from Warner Digital Audio." Worse, "How can I get there."

Hire Warner Digital Audio.

So if you're doing classic musical performances and you know your car has troubles with energetic notes, don't put any music up there. 3dB change is just barely perceptible so you can do that instead of Amplifying to 0. Nowhere is it written that you have to punch the music so hard your ears bleed.

Unless you want them to. We have tools that can do that, too. The Battle piece has been changed slightly to purposely put multiple peak notes near but not quite hitting maximum.

Koz

Hi Koz,

I played your Battle last evening and found that it sounded wonderful on my car stereo. It sounded just as lovely as both of the CD's that I have of hers, her Carnegie Hall debut and a recording she made with Wynton Marsalis of Baroque music. I turned up the volume as loud as it would go and there was no distortion whatsoever....so...on to plan B. I'll redo the 16 songs using your suggestions. I'll initially do 2 or 3 and then pop them into the ol car stereo to see if there is a difference.

I have a Christmas performance next week and have been listening to a lot of my Christmas CD's including Christmas at Carnegie Hall with Battle and my favorite mezzo, Frederica von Stade along with Andre Previn. Believe me, there has been no distortion at all with any of my CD's on that CD player, as I mentioned before. I know a good recording when I hear one...at least ...ones that have been professionally done.

I'll start on the new project tomorrow using your suggestions and let you know what the outcome is. I'll leave the Input Volume at midpoint and use the Amplify option at -7db, just as you suggested....no normalizing.

Thanks for all of your help.
MLK3329

I played your Battle last evening and found that it sounded wonderful on my car stereo.

That's not good news. That means your performances may not sound any better just by lowering the volume slightly. I was so hoping Kathleen was going to sound terrible and that would give us a very clear pathway for your success.

Now, it's back in foggy territory again. Why would some performances sound awful and only in your car?

This is where I/We need to stop thinking analytically (which hasn't worked out so well) and go to right-brain association.

I need stronger coffee for that....

Koz

Free Association...

Sometimes we can solve these things by making them worse. Either direction, better or worse works. I would die to get my hands on one of those DVDs.... I wonder if there is something other than volume messing up....

Do a test. Find one of your sample performances with significant distortion and do an Amplify to about -3dB or so (no chance of overload), and then apply Effect > Low Pass Filter, Cutoff Frequency 15000Hz. Fifteen thousand. Leave the other two values alone. Does that one sound any better in the car? Did the problem go away?

Koz

When you take a breath, are the blue waves centered around the 0.0 point (measured on the left)?

Koz

Hi Koz,

I will do what you suggest and let you know. Now, I'm tired so forgive me if I sound brain dead, and I don't drink coffee unfortunately, but I rip a song from the DVD audio again and then follow your most recent instructions. Correct?

You should know, that not all the songs have evident distortion when played on the car stereo. Some, more complex arias might be too "busy" between what the pianist is doing and what I'm singing, and I may not be able to hear any problem.

One song, was edited in Audacity directly from one of the audio cassette tapes that I had made from the VCR tapes that were created in the marketing department I mentioned in a previous email. It sounds okay, but it's not as "clean" as the other songs taken from the DVD audio. I had to do this because when I saw the DVD ripped waveform in Audacity for that particular song, for some bizarre reason, there was a large gap at the end of the song right in the middle of my last long and beautiful note..the money note. I was aghast! Being a novice, I tried to "fix" it but could never make it sound just right so, I was forced to use the audio taped version....which I was very grateful to have. What I'm getting at, too, is that there is no distortion at all in that particular song even though it's "murkier" sounding than the other songs because it's taken from a tape. It's still good enough to use and happens to be the most beautiful song on the CD. My favorite, anyway.

So, my question to you is, when people have video taped versions of movies converted into DVD, is there something that the lab might do that is different to unwittingly cause this "high strangeness" to happen...that you are aware of?

I will commence with this latest project tomorrow morning! Grateful for the help, but much too tired to start tonight.

Thanks!

Have a good evening.
MLK3329

I'm suggesting that 15000 filter as a guess that there may be some sound so high pitched that humans can't hear it, but that drive your car crazy. It's remotely possible to get damage like that when transfering between video and audio standards which are slightly different.

This filter will remove that possibility. Also the slight reduction in volume (-3dB) will take care of any possibility of overload distortion. If neither of those works, I have a more radical possibility, but we're not going to make Christmas.

A friend of mine on the other side of the city was telling me about her adventures as a Dramatic Soprano. Her husband peaked over his newspaper and said, "That means loud."

Koz

kozikowski wrote:I'm suggesting that 15000 filter as a guess

In the posted sample there is a very high frequency whistle at about 15800 Hz
This will not be removed by a low pass filter at 15000 but can be very effectively removed with a notch filter.
Here is a suitable notch filter - I've customised it so that the default settings are pre-set to 15800 Hz Instructions for installing plug-ins are here: http://audacityteam.org/download/plugins

kozikowski wrote:Sounds fine to me

I'm not sure that I agree. There definitely seems to be some distortion on that top E, though it is not particularly severe.
My suspicion is that some part of the original recording equipment was running close to overload and has introduced a little distortion, but the major problem is that the car CD player is resonating at just the wrong frequencies and making it sound much worse than it really is. If I'm correct then there's probably not much you can do about it, but the problem will probably not be evident to anyone else unless they sit in your car to listen to it.

I'd suggest that with the tests that Koz has described, you also run the notch filter on the audio, or do two versions, with and without the notch filter.
I'd also like to suggest another test - With the track that you posted, apply the "Change Speed" effect with a value of -19 (minus 19)
This will sound "wrong" as it will make the music slower and lower pitched, but it will tell us a lot if that "cures" the distortion problem.